IC ALL

Google is amazing...

05_007_003Rev1

"D. Voluntary Cancellation of Certificate, Rating, or Authorization. The airman may volunteer to surrender the certificate in question for cancellation. If this occurs, the airman has no re-issuance rights other than passing all knowledge, oral, and practical tests."

Good luck. I wouldn't volunteer to cancel your license. That's like revoke. If you just ignore them, the worst that can happen is they suspend you until you can take the ride. Maybe you'll eventually meet a nice FSDO guy who will help you out with a low threat ride.

NoyGonnaDoIt

Google is amazing for getting the wrong answer.

Read what you pasted: The read what Chinook asked: IOW, surrendering his civilian certificate temporarily as part of an arrangement to defer the 709 until a better time.

Chinook, AFAIK, there's no "official" term for it, but it's generally referred to as a "voluntary suspension pending reexamination."

There are even cases in which the FAA has accepted a voluntary suspension of a =rating= pending reexamination - suspending the certificate and then issuing a temporary one without the rating until the 709 ride. For example, if a pilot get's 709'd for an IFR event, the FAA might allow the pilot to contiue to fly VFR until the 709 ride. Or if the reexamination is in relation to a type rating, the FAA might accept temporary suspension and issue a temporary certificate without the type rating.

Good that you have a lawyer. It's understanding that you can, and knowing how to, make arrangements like this that is one of the benefits.

ChinookDriver47

So is reading the entire question and trying to help out a fellow professional pilot.

What was that saying that our mother's told us? "If you can't say something nice...."

ChinookDriver47

Thanks for the help!

The last thing I want is a suspension on my record voluntary or otherwise.

I mean, really, here's where it looks like I sit:

1: Make, and have approved, a request that the ride be dropped due to circumstances that both the lawyer and I cite that makes the ride unreasonable and unwarranted. Believe me, there are quite a few.

2: Hand in the license pending re-examination and focus on what I am doing now, which is training for combat. In which case, I have to take the ride.....sometime; probably when I get back home in the fall.

3: Ask for an exception to policy, and begin refresher training on CFI maneuvers and instructional knowledge amidst the current curriculum and flight/study requirements that I already have. In which case, I take the ride here at a time the ASI and I agree on.

4: Tell the FAA to [forget about it], and the license gets suspended. In which case, I have to take the ride to get re-instated if I ever want to teach again. End result: I take the ride.

Thoughts?

CD

IC ALL

"So is reading the entire question and trying to help out a fellow professional pilot.

What was that saying that our mother's told us? "If you can't say something nice...."

I'm sorry you took my comment as negative or sarcastic. It wasn't meant to be. Google simply helped me find a doc that seemed to pertain to your situation and I took the time to try and help you. If it didn't help you, then I'm sorry to have wasted your time.

At the risk of further wasting your time, I'll add a few comments...

I believe you are from the Seattle area (you were looking for a CFI job there). There used to be a great FSDO guy there named S Hamilton. If he's still around, he'd be a great guy to take a ride with. If I were you, I'd not voluntary give up my certificates under any circumstance. The worst that could happen is you ignore the FAA and they get susupended for a time until you can take the ride. Like I said before, maybe in five years you happen to run into a nice FAA guy when you are showing off your military helicopter at an airshow, you tell him the situation, and he helps you out. You never know....

Yeah, you don't want a suspension on your record, but it might be the best alternative if the AOPA lawyer thing doesn't work and if you feel like taking the ride now is gonna get you in trouble with the military.

ChinookDriver47

I think I know just who you are talking about. I'll see if he is still around.

Thanks for the memory jogger!

IC ALL

He came up with a program back in the mid-90's where you could attend like a years worth of his monthly CFI meetings/discussions, do a "special project" (I did Young Eagles), and he'd renew your CFI. He was very pro-GA and the only Fed I've ever really liked.

jedinein

It's nearly impossible to get out of a 709 ride. One client's required ride caught up with him 22 years and four checkrides later. He didn't study thus busted the ride and decided it was easier to surrender all of his certificates than to study for the ride.

Another client decided surrendering the instrument rating was easier than a 709 ride. The client would later surrender all certificates for the third time. Some folks you just can't reach.

The lawyer should be able to arrange a situation where you give your CFI certificate to the FAA for "safe-keeping" while you take care of defending the nation. A certificate shouldn't be even a minor annoyance when compared to people shooting at you.

The lawyer may also decide to argue a stale complaint defense. If you were so unqualified to be a CFI, why didn't the FAA do something 7 months ago? This probably won't work as the FAA gets carte blanche with 709s, but might be something to store away and remember should this Fed ever need to look good to the boss again and you are involved somehow.

Surrendering the certificate may satisfy the Fed, thus no further enforcement action is taken. You want to be really certain this is the case, perhaps in writing, before surrendering the certificate, though.

Worse case is doing nothing, thus getting an emergency suspension of your certificate(s), until such time as you take the ride.

Best of luck!

deadstick35

I don't know why I didn't think of this before. I would think the 709 is considered a civil proceeding.

Soldiers' and Sailors' Relief Act of 1940

Another significant protection under the act relates to civil proceedings. Service members involved in civil litigation can request a delay in proceedings if they can show their military responsibilities preclude their proper representation in court.

Soldiers' and Sailors' Civil Relief Act Provides Umbrella of Protection

NoyGonnaDoIt

You got a lawyer, use him. Really. That's what he's for. All anyone here can do is talk in generalities. None of us have enough information (like what triggered the FAA's desire for a 709 - the reason may be lousy, but there usually is one) to have an opinion worth more than "some guy on the Internet said..."

But I think that the voluntary suspension pending (whatever it's really called) isn't really the same thing as a suspension on your record. At least it shouldn't be and that's part of what your lawyer may try to negotiate with the FAA.

You list a number of options. There are probably others. Take anything any of us say (and Jedi's analysis is spot on - I don't think the FAA has ever been reversed on a 709 ride decision).

I'm really very curious about how this turns out. Good luck.