captfurlough

And I'm only going to say this one more time: As someone previously involved in the hiring process....look carefully at the question on the application. Does is ask have you EVER been arrested or convicted of....? Those words are pretty self explanatory. And there have been a lot of guys pulled out of class who lied. Be honest, come prepared to show how you matured with no further arrests....one mistake is probably OK...two, three, or more...well....that can be a problem. Remmeber there are multiple sources for records checks.

rickair7777

When you apply for a federal security clearance you have to sign at the bottom that you have provided full and accurate information, and there are no exceptions for juvenile indiscretions. Lying on this form is a federal felony...if you want to go there, knock yourself but maybe you shouldn't tell other people that it's OK. Most people joining the military are so young that juvenile records are they only thing they have to go on...they will not just let that slide.

BTW, the DoD does not just run an NCIC check and call it good. The easiest way for them to catch you is a multi-scope reference check. They talk to the references you gave them, but they don't ask them about YOU...if they had something bad to say about you, you wouldn't have listed them as references, right? What they ask your friends for is for the names of OTHER people who know you...ask enough people and eventually they'll find out about things.

And I know of at least one major AAirline which supposedly used to do a similar sort of background check. But I think you're right about most airlines, most of the time.

Most minor juvie offenses will not be held against you if you are old enough and experienced enough to be applying to an airline anyway...disclosing such an offense would probably be viewed as an indication of your honesty (hopefully you don't have a track record).

citation35hf

I am not giving advice on what is morally right, just on what my 10+ years of experience as an attorney and 20+ as a police officer has taught me.

What keeps you from speeding? Getting a ticket, right? If there were no cops to give tickets would you speed? Maybe...maybe not.

My point is that you would have to disclose a juvenile arrest to whoever is asking the question and they would have to go to that court and request those records.

citation35hf

......And remember juvenile arrests/convictions do not get entered into any data system.......

I'm sure there are plenty of guys who have lied about status offenses to the airlines and thought they were too petty to matter then got booted from class. What I guarantee is that none of these offenses occurred when the person was under 18.

This forum remind me of the time on officer.com forums that I got into an argument with a cop from DC who was so sure that all airline pilots made at least $80,000 as a 1st year FO. He was an expert on that topic as much as you think you’re an expert on criminal law.

NoyGonnaDoIt

So, after reversing at least one part of your earlier ranting post, are you now suggesting that if someone was treated as an adult in a state criminal system but they find that their record never made it into the NCIC, they lie on an employment application? Does that go for offenses that, while both adult and criminal are not reported for various other reasons?

The only hair I'm splitting on the OP's post is that he may not know the effect of his "conviction" or whether he was "convicted" of anything at all. You are assuming that he knows the legal ramifications of his conviction; based on my experience, I am not willing to make that assumption and am suggesting finding out is the most prudent course.

captfurlough

I'm not an expert on criminal law, and have never claimed to be. As someone who spent a fair amount of my career on the hiring side of the table, I have some valid insight. Read my statement carefully....what I said and stand by...is that if you are asked a question on the employment application, and you LIE, you've demonstrated at least one basic charactor trait that makes you undesirable for employment. Further more, that lie may be found out, and the company then has the right to discharge that employee, no matter how long after the employment began. There are many ways such information comes to the attention of the company, not simply from law enforcement data bases. For example, many airlines prefer internal recommendations from pilots that know the applicant and can vouch for his or her character. Rather than encouraging applicants on this site to LIE, you should encourage them to be honest and open, and assuming that their background checks support the idea that they've learned their lesson and have avoided repetitive contacts with the law, they will likely be hirable.

In my experience, it's unfortuneately not unusual for someone who has "maturity issues" and run ins with the law, to continue that behavior beyond age 18, so those individuals tend to be identified in data bases with more than one offense. To anyone that is concerned about these things, you should not plan on any narrow legal standing prior to age 18 to rescue you from the consequences of poor behaviours on your part.

The overarching point to be made here to those individuals contemplating a career as an airline pilot: keep your career goal in mind when making choices in your everyday life from high school on.

stbloc

Basically what he is saying is they don't know your juvenile record in so many words.

J Hammastyx

^This. Like The Offspring said, "If you're under 18, you won't be doing any time".

BeardedFlyer

When you say "go" to that court do you mean they would have to physically walk in and ask for the records or could it be done over the phone? I ask because if they (potential employer) have a list of your previous addresses, which is usually something they ask for on an application then all they would have to do is call the local court that has jurisdiction over the city/cities you lived in as a minor right? With your name, DOB and Soc Sec # that seems easy enough for an HR rep to do over the phone before lunch at Panda Express, but I am definitely no expert.

With your legal background I trust that you know what you're talking about; I'm not trying to challenging your expertise here, just looking for clarification.

NoyGonnaDoIt

Hate to say it: depends on the state, depends on the court.

Consider: you are engaged in a activity (flying) that is highly regulated by a set of uniforms standards but different inspectors, different FSDSo, and even different personnel within treat the same rule differently/

No move to less reg driven state courts where not only each state will have different standards and within that different levels of court, different judicial districts, different support people and different judges and prosecutors and their own styles an biases. Getting into the records may or may not be as easy as an online form where you list your dob and social and it spits out your record.

...or it may.

That's the point.