Definitely nope.

 

It is, although the first act of the attorney might not be what you think.

My personal take: "Talk to an attorney, not the inspector" is generally the safest overall advice. But the attorney's advice might well be to talk to the inspector. It depends on the reason for the investigation, the pilot, the attorney and the inspector.

When the FAA talks about enforcement it also talks about having a "compliant attitude." The pilot who admits a mistake might avoid enforcement action by being up-front and honest. Or, he might be unwittingly giving the FAA exactly the information it needs to nail him.

Trouble is, most of us are pretty bad judges of which it will be, especially when it's our own butts on the line. That's why not talking is generally safer than talking.

And the sometimes "benefit" of talking is where a knowledgeable attorney can help, although even then, it's more art than science. But at least with an attorney, you're getting independent professional judgment to help with your own decision.

 

Sorry, you know incorrectly. Most 709s are indeed the aftermath of an accident or incident but that's only because of something pretty obvious - with no accident or incident, there's usually nothing to find out.

Can you find language here that limits 709 rides to accidents or incidents?

==============================
Sec. 44709. Amendments, modifications, suspensions, and revocations of certificates
==============================

 

And some instructors I know were given a 709 ride for essentially what you are detailing. I remember my first manager told me "your first few students kind of get a crappy deal", due to the relative inexperience you have at this point. It sucks that happened to your first couple students, in fact that kind of brings to light the entire issue of the least experienced pilots (brand new IPs) training new pilots, but that's another issue.

The FSDO and Inspectors are usually pretty understanding when it comes to this. Although you can't be 100% certain a student will pass, it is your responsibility to make sure they are trained, and if you determine that you can't train them past a point, don't put them up. The Inspector will know you've only put up 3 people for a checkride, so they are just looking for some basic skills, usually nothing fancy, and if you are a current pilot, it shouldn't be anything to worry about. Logistically it might be a pain, but look at their job, they are not out to "get" anyone for pleasure, they are out to ensure standards are upheld. They need to find out if this is just a "fluke" or a serious problem. I assure you the Inspector hopes it's a "fluke". They aren't your friend, but they are not your enemy either.

Then, you might want to read some of the information that is put out there on checkrides from DPEs and the FSDO (they do have some resources!). Sometimes for lack of a better way to put it, some flight schools and even DPEs don't really enforce the standards, letting people get away with things that won't pass or are contrary to how a check should be performed.

 

The highlighted parts are reasons why my friend gave the advice he did.
The attorney's advice might be to talk - THROUGH HIM - to the FAA.
He will draft the letter, he will word it correctly, and he will apply that "art"
so as to keep you from damaging yourself any further.

USMCFLYR

 

Good point. I didn't know it wasn't restricted to accidents or incidents.

Hope the OP can figure out what the request was for.

 

Any check ride is, also partially, a reflection of the instructiion the applicant has received.

 

There are numerous reasons the Feds could ask for a 709, but in your case there is a need to ensure you are providing the quality of instruction the public is paying for, that is to prepare the student for his check ride. You need to look at this as the Feds doing their job, not out to get you. And it is true, a compliant attitude, along with understanding all the roles in your line of work is necessary. A lawyer probably will have no effect on the outcome as you will still have to deal with the Feds, but I can guarantee you, taking a stand of no communication will. As a professional, do you believe your instruction MAY need improvement, or you have a role in the outcome of the check ride?

 

I expect the FAA will be looking to see if you know how to teach. Be prepared to get grilled on FOI. Review the "Aviation Instructor's Handbook", FAA-H-8083-9 or later version as there is a lot of material in there as RED MEAT for the FAA to grill you on.

Good Luck and please let us know more about it.

 

Interesting choice of words. I wonder exactly how much the public in question was paying? I suspect that, by the measure of any rational industry, they got their money's worth.