I can only speak for what I see at my regional (which I won't name because I don't want to cause a ruckus). Hand flying was deemphasized in training and is rarely done on the line above 1000 feet. I think I've only seen one captain ever turn the AP off in IMC.

How we're expected to become or remain proficient at flying the plane, I don't know. I know that if I'm in the back and the AP quits, I would hope the crew diverts to a VMC field.

Every sim ride I have done has required a single engine missed and a single engine hand flown ILS to mins. I would hope anyone sitting in a US airliner could fly that without a problem.

Of course, but real life is different from the sim, were you do it once a year and can put all your concentration on this one big make-or-break task, which is then handed to you on a platter (AP on until final course and intercept altitude, no wind, no turbulence, FD to follow...)

To think that this keeps one comfortable and proficient for real life, is naive.

Real life is where you keep the AP on and say things like "better scan for traffic" or "maintain better situational awareness" or "they don't pay me enough to do that" or "I'm old and lazy, haha" or "this plane is designed to be flown with the autopilot" or "helps you make a stabilized approach" or "reduce your workload" or "reduce the other crewmember's workload" etc... anything but fly the plane.

Hahaha!

Maybe your hand flying is an emergency, but mine rocks!

I’m smooth as a baby’s ass!!

I bet it "rocks," alright...

That's a bit of a stretch to go from saying that hand flying is deemphasized in training to hand flying is essentially an emergency procedure.




If that is indeed true and how you feel about the pilot's ability at your airline, it sounds like your airline should immediately be shut down and all it's pilots given re-examination rides.


And just because that is the way it is at your airline, doesn't mean it is that way other places. I would have no problem doing some handflying, nor would I give a second thought to sitting in back if my fellow workers had to do it. Even in IMC!?! :eek:

I’m curious as to what regional airline you work for since I’m just beginning my training and part of the reason as to why I’m pursuing this career professionally is that I really enjoy hand flying, and flying in general. I’m well aware that European and Asian carriers are very restrictive in regards to allowing pilots to hand fly the beast but I thought we were different here in the good old US of A.

Also, as a side question. What are the airlines that allow you and even encourage hand flying?

Every sim event we hand fly single engine ILS with a 200 foot ceiling and 1/2 mile visibility.

I think we are OK.

Anyone who thinks that hand flying a single engine approach in imc in any weather to 200 and 1/2 is a dangerous challenge would be better off either taking a step back and getting some real actual experience or going away and doing something else. Because hand flown single engine Cat I approaches are easy and no danger at all to us experienced professionals. Sorry if that’s harsh but that’s just the way it is.

It's not just that it was deemphasized in training, it's the whole mindset of how it slots into the other elements of our operations, and where we place our confidence in getting us to the destination. That is to say, the autopilot is where 100% of our confidence is placed. Hand flying is just something you do on a lark for some variety, only in the most benign of conditions... if even then. Most of the time I do it in IMC I get looked at sideways, and if it's anything close to minimums then I risk a talking-to about risk management.

A normal procedure is something you do, well, normally, with the everyday ease and comfort of putting your pants on in the morning. An emergency procedure is something that is too risky to practice normally, so you save it for the sim and hope that it comes out OK if the necessity comes up in real life. One time I witnessed an approach brief (from the jumpseat on mainline, by the way) that included "and I'm gonna keep the autopilot on, I'm not gonna F around today." It was 800 broken, with no compounding factors. To characterize it as F-ing around instead of, you know, flying the plane, the main thing we supposedly do as pilots... does that sound like a normal procedure to you?

We passed it the first time around. And every time on recurrent. So maybe there's something also wrong with the system that allows this?

All the restrictiveness I described is in the everyday company culture, but the good news is that it's not in the actual rules. We can handfly all the time except a few clearly defined cases. One can choose to do it with little trouble. In the beginning I would ask the CA's if they mind, as if I'm asking to borrow money or something. Later I changed to simply briefing my intentions, and letting them change the plan if they see fit.

We do that too. But for the reasons I outlined in my earlier post, I don't share your confidence that this ensures comfort and proficiency for everyday ops. How often do you do it not in the sim? That's what would put me at ease.

"We're not pilots anymore, we're automaton managers." Sound familiar? This was said to me with no hint of derision or sarcasm, by the guy that gave me my 121 checkride. As actual advice. He explicitly said that he doesn't care about stick and rudder skills.