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Gone Flying 02-23-2022 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TransWorld (Post 3377822)
That is what the folks at Peal Harbor were saying about the Pacific on December 6, 1941.

the Japanese navy used 6 aircraft carriers in their attack on pearl, I’m assuming they had more in their fleet.

the Russian navy has exactly 1 aircraft carrier, we have 11. As a whole I think we can more than adequately defend ourselves

John Carr 02-23-2022 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gone Flying (Post 3377810)
this is mostly what it boils down to for me. I completely understand wanting to curb russian aggression, what I don’t understand is why we should have to be the ones to do it? If Germany, Italy, France, UK, ect. Won’t stand up to the bully in their backyard, why should we?

Something may have changed, I simply haven’t looked as of late.

But look up how much energy/fuel Russia supplies to Germany.

TransWorld 02-23-2022 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gone Flying (Post 3377829)
the Japanese navy used 6 aircraft carriers in their attack on pearl, I’m assuming they had more in their fleet.

the Russian navy has exactly 1 aircraft carrier, we have 11. As a whole I think we can more than adequately defend ourselves

A big difference today is range of planes and refueling. Our B-2s regularly have flown half way around the world and returned, without ever landing. Russian has intercontinental missile capabilities as well.

Gone Flying 02-23-2022 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TransWorld (Post 3377841)
A big difference today is range of planes and refueling. Our B-2s regularly have flown half way around the world and returned, without ever landing. Russian has intercontinental missile capabilities as well.


I’m pretty confident in our ability to defend ourselves against those threats.

Excargodog 02-23-2022 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TransWorld (Post 3377822)
That is what the folks at Peal Harbor were saying about the Pacific on December 6, 1941.

What??? That’s right up there with this:

https://youtu.be/V8lT1o0sDwI

Excargodog 02-23-2022 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TransWorld (Post 3377841)
A big difference today is range of planes and refueling. Our B-2s regularly have flown half way around the world and returned, without ever landing. Russian has intercontinental missile capabilities as well.

And that has WHAT to do with the Europeans being too damn cheap to defend themselves? The GDP for Russia is the 11th in the world, behind even Canada. The EU has adequate financial resources to defend themselves. We don’t need to tax our citizens to defend their citizens when they won’t tax their citizens to defend their citizens.

FNGFO 02-23-2022 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy (Post 3377734)
Well, before the Iron Curtain fell, we had MAP (mutually assured paranoia) where both sides worried about the other invading.

Question: how long do you think it takes to build enough military equipment to mount a ground offensive?
Let's go into paranoid gaming mode for this. Let's say all VW, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Opel, and Smart car factories in Germany were converted to produce military vehicles. How many armored infantry vehicles could they crank out every month? How many months before an aggressive Germany, wanting to secure natural gas supplies, be capable of mounting a ground offensive?
I would be surprised if the Russian military hasn't done tabletop exercises along similar lines.
This may seem farfetched but Europe has an energy deficit problem. Russia has energy.
Paranoid? Perhaps. But suggesting that Germany would become a superpower after WWI was also paranoid, especially with the huge reparations levied on them from the Treaty of Versailles.

You may disagree with Russia's desire to have a large land buffer to protect them from European aggression but I wouldn't dismiss it.

Those that cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
-George Santayana

That kind of build up and national will isn’t something that happens in 6 months. Everyone can see it coming. Germany hasn’t had any real interest in playing war in decades. Or Europe for that matter.

Russia has resources. The country with the population, will, military and eventual need for those resources doesn’t lay to the West of them nor would they choose that route for invasion. Learning from history is a thing, but you can walk your happy a$$ right into oncoming traffic pretty easily by looking back over your shoulder the entire time.

Defending the 9 passes into Russia with what constitutes the current Russian military is a fools errand and leaves them wide open from the other side. That’s not a problem of immediacy, but it’s where the problem will come from. There’s a reason we shut down sub hunting bases in the Caribbean and consolidated our nuclear wings into a couple of bases. The threat requiring the other facilities them no longer exists.

Texasbound 02-23-2022 01:42 PM

Russia, what fools, they are about to fall victim to one of the classic blunders... the most famous one actually.

emersonbiguns 02-23-2022 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texasbound (Post 3377865)
Russia, what fools, they are about to fall victim to one of the classic blunders... the most famous one actually.

It's Europe, not Asia....

Excargodog 02-23-2022 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FNGFO (Post 3377864)
That kind of build up and national will isn’t something that happens in 6 months. Everyone can see it coming. Germany hasn’t had any real interest in playing war in decades. Or Europe for that matter.
.


Stratfor predicted this seven years ago:


https://worldview.stratfor.com/artic...ignificant-men


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