Ok yea year 2 LOL What year would you be here by then? I guess still making guarantee huh? Stop making it seem like it's not a paycut, you're not going to be making the same amount for at least 3 years unless you take the upgrade nobody wants. As far as contracts, you have no clue. It could be 3 years, it could be 5+. If it sooner than later then its definitly not worth leaving.

😳

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You have incredibly poor risk analysis skills.

Really not sure where you’re getting your info, but assuming Breeze’s webpage is accurate, at 24 months on property, a legacy WB FO is making more than an 8 year 220 CA - that’s not even including 17% DC, PS, etc. NB isn’t too far behind that. I didn’t even look at your all’s FO pay scale.

I guess I’m really missing where you’re seeing a pay cut going from Breeze to a legacy.

And this makes no sense to me. We’re all doing the same thing - flying planes for money. The fact that you do it for a “start up” shouldn’t mean you do it for way less than industry standard - many articles about this when Breeze first started out. This is the mentality that keeps pilot groups in the crapper.

Well we’re talking about leaving here as a captain. Let’s compare apples to apples, Breeze doesn’t fly the A350. Some pilots have no desire at all to fly widebody. Check your numbers then. If you want widebody international, have at it.

Ok well we’ll see.

You tell me to compare apples-apples, but yet you're making a comparison based on leaving as a CA and remaining a NB FO when other options are available. Very confused on your logic here.

Im not bagging on your pilot group; we all have niches that fit us individually and reasons for the place we hang our hat. Hell, I really enjoyed my regional for my own personal reasons, but it was well known to be a pretty crappy one. Somehow you're doing the mental gymnastics (but telling me to compare apples-apples) that it is financially more advantageous to stay at Breeze over a legacy. I don't have to check numbers, they're in plain sight right now, not if this happens or that happens in the future.

I'm not saying making the jump is easy or doesn't come with some risk. We've hired almost 1/3 of my airline the last few years - you'd be on the bottom of a huge seniority list - that's a fact. But that doesn't change the objective financials. Stay for location, stay for the plane, routes, or schedules, stay for seniority, stay because it's the safe thing to do for you. Heck, stay for that "it's a start up, it's something unique, we're changing the industry" BS. But financially ahead? You're deluding yourself.

Yes, year one at a legacy from a captain at Breeze will be a pay cut, that’s a known fact. But if you’re attempting to convince yourself that somehow sacrificing that one year won’t earn you way more in later years, you’re wrong. Unless maybe you are 63 years old and don’t have time.

But if you just compare apples-to-apples. Year 2 legacy narrowbody rates starting January ‘25 are $185. Year 3 starting January ‘26 are $225. Now factor in 17% for retirement!! When you do that math, the legacy FO makes about $1k more than the Breeze year 3 E195 CA, or year 1 A220 CA.

Year 2: A220 CA vs NB FO
237x85x12=$241,740 +6% match= $14,504
185x85x12=$188,700 +17%=$32,079

Year 3: I’ll use year 4 Breeze CA pay for this one and year 3 NB CA at reserve min guarantee

243x85x12=$247,860+6% match= $14,871

363.66x76x12=$331,657+ (18% now!) 18%=$59,698

so by year 3, and on reserve, a legacy CA makes over 130k more PER YEAR than a line holding Breeze CA. Not including any per diem or any form of other compensation. Not only is their compensation higher, but they have contracts that dictate what can and can not happen to you!! This is a very simple ROI problem. Is a 2/3 year wait enough for you to jump ship because you know you’ll be making more by then than Breeze will ever pay, or do you slug it out and hope that Breeze middle management agrees to the best LCC contract to ever exist, which would still be lower than a legacy! The decision is yours to make. Anyone under 50 years old staying at Breeze seriously makes me wonder about their mental health! Luckily for me I earned my golden ticket and my class date is approaching!

Widebody isn’t just good for those who want to fly widebodies. It makes all the narrowbody relative seniority that much better in both NB seats. The biggest fallacy I hear from LCC/ULCC pilots is they don’t have any desire to fly WBs so no reason to leave. I used to have that same mentality until I realized how it helps every other seniority bucket. My buddy who left frontier (reluctantly—I had to convince him pretty hard) for United, with that same attitude about only wanting to ever fly Airbus NB and how it would be the same as what he’s doing at frontier so he didn’t want to go and take a pay cut, is now on the 787. He now will never go back to narrowbody. And even when he was on the 320 at UAL he couldn’t believe he even entertained staying at frontier instead. But I digress.

But back to your argument. Just look at 401k. $50-$60k a year direct contribution in a 401k, compounding, is the biggest differentiator in a career at a major and a career at breeze.

And if you think that will get much better, just remember how Neeleman envisioned this airline. Fly airplanes in-between RJs and majors. Pay in-between RJ pay and major pay. Hire CFIs…as in, if regionals can attract pilots and pay them dog poo, he can have slightly bigger planes, pay them slightly better than dog poo, and attract from the same pool as regionals. After 2 years or so they can upgrade. After 2 or so years in the left seat they can move on to majors. And now he just resets the average longevity and gets someone new on 1st year pay to replace the guy on 5th year pay. Rinse, repeat.

He did the same thing with FAs…make them “part time” young college girls, pay them crap, they get a 4 year degree and then go get a real job/career. Then they get a new part time college student to replace them. Keeps them young and paid low….which honestly is genius. The experienced jaded FAs are often the worst.

Point is he found a way to try to perpetually keep pay down by resetting longevity. Keeping the average pilot at 2-5 years longevity instead of having hundreds or thousands of guys who will end up maxing out at 12 years, with more sick/vacation time, is smart from a business standpoint. Theres a reason when he was giving raises he didn’t really come close with 401k. He still doesn’t want you to stay there for long. He did what he had to do to get and keep enough meat in the seat, but once this pilot market cools off (it already has started), his plan will go back in place, and if you think you’ll get a CBA and a good retirement anytime soon, you’re nuts. They want their 401k to be like regionals’…crappy. Because they want their pilots to be like most regional pilots…just trying to build time and get to a career airline.

But, there’s other reasons staying at breeze might be cool (I almost went there very early on). I just don’t think fear of a pay cut going to a major is one of them. And I’d much rather be at the bottom of a major seniority list right now, with a bunch of retirements on the horizon, than anywhere on the list at a startup that still is hemorrhaging money and not close to breaking even, with no end in sight. I just don’t see a very viable path for Breeze aside from being bought, which I know is the hope for many breeze guys. Nothing wrong with that, just a huge gamble, while losing opportunity cost with pay, 401k and seniority at a much more sure bet with a much more predictable and stable future. Hope is a strong emotion though. Sometimes stronger than logic. Just my $.02.

what he said 👆🏻. Sums it up perfectly. I still remember the breezenomics episode where Trent said , “we’re a regional Plus” . Like we were supposed to be proud of that.