Originally Posted by Swapapotamoose (Post 3762992)

what he said 👆🏻. Sums it up perfectly. I still remember the breezenomics episode where Trent said , “we’re a regional Plus” . Like we were supposed to be proud of that.

Originally Posted by bluespoon (Post 3763223)

Well what do you expect from the guy in charge of the money. The moment attrition went through the roof they raised pay. They told us we’re looking to be at break even or profitable in the next 6 months, possibly sooner. Past that, who knows. The type of airline they’ve created or would like to have is totally different than others. Somewhat close to Southwest maybe as far as point to point. We’re still very small, unless someone wants our order book of up to 120 A220s.

Originally Posted by I was inverted (Post 3762881)

Widebody isn’t just good for those who want to fly widebodies. It makes all the narrowbody relative seniority that much better in both NB seats. The biggest fallacy I hear from LCC/ULCC pilots is they don’t have any desire to fly WBs so no reason to leave. I used to have that same mentality until I realized how it helps every other seniority bucket. My buddy who left frontier (reluctantly—I had to convince him pretty hard) for United, with that same attitude about only wanting to ever fly Airbus NB and how it would be the same as what he’s doing at frontier so he didn’t want to go and take a pay cut, is now on the 787. He now will never go back to narrowbody. And even when he was on the 320 at UAL he couldn’t believe he even entertained staying at frontier instead. But I digress.

But back to your argument. Just look at 401k. $50-$60k a year direct contribution in a 401k, compounding, is the biggest differentiator in a career at a major and a career at breeze.

And if you think that will get much better, just remember how Neeleman envisioned this airline. Fly airplanes in-between RJs and majors. Pay in-between RJ pay and major pay. Hire CFIs…as in, if regionals can attract pilots and pay them dog poo, he can have slightly bigger planes, pay them slightly better than dog poo, and attract from the same pool as regionals. After 2 years or so they can upgrade. After 2 or so years in the left seat they can move on to majors. And now he just resets the average longevity and gets someone new on 1st year pay to replace the guy on 5th year pay. Rinse, repeat.

He did the same thing with FAs…make them “part time” young college girls, pay them crap, they get a 4 year degree and then go get a real job/career. Then they get a new part time college student to replace them. Keeps them young and paid low….which honestly is genius. The experienced jaded FAs are often the worst.

Point is he found a way to try to perpetually keep pay down by resetting longevity. Keeping the average pilot at 2-5 years longevity instead of having hundreds or thousands of guys who will end up maxing out at 12 years, with more sick/vacation time, is smart from a business standpoint. Theres a reason when he was giving raises he didn’t really come close with 401k. He still doesn’t want you to stay there for long. He did what he had to do to get and keep enough meat in the seat, but once this pilot market cools off (it already has started), his plan will go back in place, and if you think you’ll get a CBA and a good retirement anytime soon, you’re nuts. They want their 401k to be like regionals’…crappy. Because they want their pilots to be like most regional pilots…just trying to build time and get to a career airline.

But, there’s other reasons staying at breeze might be cool (I almost went there very early on). I just don’t think fear of a pay cut going to a major is one of them. And I’d much rather be at the bottom of a major seniority list right now, with a bunch of retirements on the horizon, than anywhere on the list at a startup that still is hemorrhaging money and not close to breaking even, with no end in sight. I just don’t see a very viable path for Breeze aside from being bought, which I know is the hope for many breeze guys. Nothing wrong with that, just a huge gamble, while losing opportunity cost with pay, 401k and seniority at a much more sure bet with a much more predictable and stable future. Hope is a strong emotion though. Sometimes stronger than logic. Just my $.02.

Originally Posted by leftapproved (Post 3763611)

Spot on.

You can keep preaching this all day long, but the majority of pilots (captains) at MX have already given up on a career at the majors. They've become stuck making 2x-3x what they made previously - all while flying 2 leg days on an A220. They ain't leaving. They are comfortable. And most can't get hired elsewhere anyway.

To the young FOs - do not let these captains convince you that this is the best place to be. "Just imagine where JetBlue was 20 years ago".... stop. Just stop. As mentioned very well above, Breeze is a great first job, but it is not a long term job. Just as Breeze is changing on each bid, theres nothing saying it won't for the worse at any time. There is no guarantee Tampa, Charleston, Provo, etc... will be bases forever. In fact, it's likely they won't be.

Originally Posted by bonvoyage (Post 3762770)

Yes, year one at a legacy from a captain at Breeze will be a pay cut, that’s a known fact. But if you’re attempting to convince yourself that somehow sacrificing that one year won’t earn you way more in later years, you’re wrong. Unless maybe you are 63 years old and don’t have time.

But if you just compare apples-to-apples. Year 2 legacy narrowbody rates starting January ‘25 are $185. Year 3 starting January ‘26 are $225. Now factor in 17% for retirement!! When you do that math, the legacy FO makes about $1k more than the Breeze year 3 E195 CA, or year 1 A220 CA.

Year 2: A220 CA vs NB FO
237x85x12=$241,740 +6% match= $14,504
185x85x12=$188,700 +17%=$32,079

Year 3: I’ll use year 4 Breeze CA pay for this one and year 3 NB CA at reserve min guarantee

243x85x12=$247,860+6% match= $14,871

363.66x76x12=$331,657+ (18% now!) 18%=$59,698

so by year 3, and on reserve, a legacy CA makes over 130k more PER YEAR than a line holding Breeze CA. Not including any per diem or any form of other compensation. Not only is their compensation higher, but they have contracts that dictate what can and can not happen to you!! This is a very simple ROI problem. Is a 2/3 year wait enough for you to jump ship because you know you’ll be making more by then than Breeze will ever pay, or do you slug it out and hope that Breeze middle management agrees to the best LCC contract to ever exist, which would still be lower than a legacy! The decision is yours to make. Anyone under 50 years old staying at Breeze seriously makes me wonder about their mental health! Luckily for me I earned my golden ticket and my class date is approaching!

Originally Posted by BE76pilot (Post 3764654)

How do some of ya'll get up in the morning? At Breeze I make a 1/4 mil a year working on average 3 days a week, and many weeks just 2, and I don't have to commute to some ugly hub city. 401k isn't where it oughta be yet but it's probaly going to become at least acceptable. If it doesn't, then I've made plans for that too.

I get awarded 19-21 days off consistently, 16-17 on the odd slow month, which is hard to beat...it's worth more than gold to me .I'm sure things are *better* elsewhere, but this gig doesn't suck. Unless your goal is to have a really fancy funeral one day or become the fountainhead for your progeny, it's become a fine place to hang your hat, despite what the orginal plan may have been.

Originally Posted by bonvoyage (Post 3764662)

Sir you have perfectly described the average mentality of Breeze pilots and reason we will never see improvements. You could work 👌 much more at a Legacy and make 400k a year with work rules and retirement policies!!

Originally Posted by bluespoon (Post 3764721)

Oh boy. You sound like you haven’t been doing this for too long. No doubt you think you’re super important and you believe you’re entitled to 400k. If airlines could pay you minimum wage, they would. The legacies are enjoying great pay but for a long long time before it wasn’t so, they’re really making up for lost earnings. Breeze has only been around for a small amount of time in the grand scheme of things, even less when you take into account the A220 flying, which is really where the money is. So you can’t just say breeze pilots have a certain mentality or that we won’t see improvements based on a tiny blip of amount of time observing things. And it’s not even true because they did raise pay here close to or above JetBlue rates before they even had the new contract. So you just sound super entitled. We can’t just start on Delta A220 pay day one, it will take some time, also we probably need to be profitable first.

Originally Posted by bluespoon (Post 3764721)

Oh boy. You sound like you haven’t been doing this for too long. No doubt you think you’re super important and you believe you’re entitled to 400k. If airlines could pay you minimum wage, they would. The legacies are enjoying great pay but for a long long time before it wasn’t so, they’re really making up for lost earnings. Breeze has only been around for a small amount of time in the grand scheme of things, even less when you take into account the A220 flying, which is really where the money is. So you can’t just say breeze pilots have a certain mentality or that we won’t see improvements based on a tiny blip of amount of time observing things. And it’s not even true because they did raise pay here close to or above JetBlue rates before they even had the new contract. So you just sound super entitled. We can’t just start on Delta A220 pay and contract day one, it will take some time, also we probably need to be profitable first.