Pilatus801

This year I got motivated and excited to forge ahead with becoming an airline pilot in my mid 40s. I've always wanted to be a pilot which is why I got my PPL more than a decade ago. Recently I was forging ahead, finishing off my instrument rating and then getting ready to start on my commercial license and then CFI.

I've been lurking on this board for some time and researching the various regional airlines. Skywest was my target and although it has been refreshing to see wages increase, I finally have to admit that the wages are still not good enough for me to dump more money into flight training, give up a bunch of my free time to focus on being a CFI for several years, all so i can turn around and earn $40k to $45k for several years why I cut my teeth as a newbie at Skywest. The pay increases would be minimal over the years and I believe this is one big financial mistake to continue in this direction.

In my current employment, I can watch the job boards and increase my annual pay and status significantly in the next year or so simply by interviewing and considering new job offers within my industry.

I certainly love aviation and have always been fascinated by it, but I do not believe the wages are where they need to be still. If new pilots could get in and start at a reasonable wage, say $70,000 or higher, then i think it might be worthwhile for a lot of people. It still amazes me to this day that new FOs even just a few years ago were earning less than $30k flying commercial jets with 70 pax in the back.

I also believe that a lot of the "pilot shortage" would evaporate if entry level wages increased. I imagine many men and women in my shoes have come to the same conclusion....there simply isn't enough money to make it viable and to make a decent living out of it.

It has also been quite eye opening to monitor these boards and see so many people griping about life inside the airlines. Being on reserves, not flowing as soon as possible or not getting upgraded as soon as possible. Its an interesting industry no doubt. Anyone care to challenge my comments and let me know if my perception is off??

Varsity

Your perception is not off.

If anything it might be optimistic. We are overdue for a downturn, when that happens wages will stagnate/fall once again.

rickair7777

The financial outcome of an airline career is amplified by the amount of time you have at a major. For a a 22 y/o college grad, they're looking at a major before age 30, then 12 years to the top of the scale, then maybe ten more to widebody CA... they are looking at career earnings at the major well north of $10M, maybe even pushing $15M. And plenty of time off and QOL along the way. They are rightly so willing to put up with a little lost opportunity cost in the early years.

For a career changer that calculus diminishes, depending on your current career and age. At age 40, with the current pilot demand, the math is still probably in your favor unless you're currently a high-end doc, lawyer, or business owner. Of course there's risk along the way, and some hardship.

You should probably do a detailed spreadsheet comparing various options (regional, LCC, legacy) to your current gig. Make reasonable, conservative assumptions, and don't forget to account for the various airline benies (like 15-16% 401k contribution at legacies. Contribution, not match).


See above. If you're just in it for the money, it's harder to make the case, but there still might be a case.
That's been the case forever. There is no pilot shortage (yet). Only a shortage of willing apprentices (ie regional FO's). If you want to be a professional jet pilot, you need to do an apprenticeship.

Pilots tend to complain. If times are slow they complain about not enough flying/money. If things are going gangbusters, they complain about not having enough time off. Keep in mind that many of them have never held a desk job... their expectations of work/life balance are more like the frat house than the real world.

Scraggly Heron

I don't think your perceptions are off; someone starting out with no paycheck can look at the long path to a (potential) career at the majors and accept that it's going to be a tough road. You already have a decent paycheck and have to look at this from the perspective of giving all that up to *maybe* have a good one somewhere down the line.

And that assumes actually getting hired by one of the majors or a legacy at some point. If a medical problem pops up you have all the debt that you racked up getting your qualifications, but have a skill set that doesn't transfer to non-flying jobs. Get a couple of speeding tickets or have a bad flight on a check ride and you can start crossing the best flying jobs off of your list of options. Unexpected events cause a major industry downturn and there are suddenly no jobs available. etc.

Now, if you love flying and don't want to do anything else, an entire career in the regionals is acceptable even if the pay isn't good. If Majors/Legacies would just be gravy, a career in flying is absolutely what you should do with your life. Just proceed with caution.

Otterbox

Pay has increased rapidly over the last 24 months at the regional level.

If you’re after better pay then you’re looking in the wrong place by focusing on Skywest at the moment.

Look at Endeavor, the newest leader in pay in the industry, and whoever matches their scales in the next 18 months...

Bhounddog

I agree with the OP. In my opinion, getting to 1,500 hours as a CFI should be considered the apprenticeship and being a regional FO considered an entry level job.

To put entry level jobs in perspective, a person can attend a coding bootcamp for ~$15K total for 6 months and get a job as an entry level web developer getting paid ~$60K per year. Yet, becoming an airline pilot takes ~1 year + ~$60K to get ratings + 2-3 years making ~$35K per year as a CFI to get to 1,500 hours, then the regional FO “entry level job” pays only ~$45K per year.

Unless being an FO on an A320 at a major airline is significantly harder than being a an on a FO on a regional jet, there isn’t a good reason why regional FOs makes so much less than a major FOs. Don’t regional FOs and major FOs have the same job description, the same responsibility level? Don’t both generate similar economic productivity?

Both regional and major FOs are responsible for dozens of lives, responsible for multi-million dollar jets, fly into the same busy airports, and make the same sacrifices to spend time away from home and family. Yet, FOs at regional airlines make a fraction of what FOs at major airlines make.

As a potential career changer in my 30s with a family, the lack of pay as a regional FO is a major deterrent. I would feel resentful being a regional FO making ~$45K and struggling to make ends meet financially while while FOs at majors executing the same job description make ~$120K. Having said that, I agree with the OP, a salary more around ~$60K-~$70K for a regional FO would be more manageable.

Pilatus801

Thanks for the comments so far. The entry level pay is a major deterrent and is making me reconsider this move altogether. I'm probably like most people in the sense that i want to earn a good living and continually improve my place in life, so that some day i can retire and live comfortably. To leave my current employment get my commercial license and then be a CFI for a few years to build to 1,500 hours, is a major opportunity cost. Then, to go start at a regional at such low pay is an added poke in the eye and slap in the face. It seems to me the whole system needs to modernize and perhaps needs a wage revolution. But as long as there are willing candidates to go to the regionals and get hired, the wages will not change much IMO.

JTwift

This is why I quit the regional. I didn't get hired after a couple interviews at Majors (I guess I suck at interviews?). And after spending a bit of time at the Regional, I came to the quick realization that it's the scam of the century. There is absolutely zero reason that regionals should even exist. It's the same job. Same dangers. Same places. But with considerably worse pay, time off, and QOL.

I'm just going to enjoy spending time with my family and live off my meager military retirement.

Pilots deserve every bit of money they make (and more), and it kind of makes me sad that I don't see more people talking about their TOTAL time away. If you go on a 5 day trip...in my opinion, you just worked 120 hours. Yet, you get paid only for block out/in, plus a few dollars per diem.

At the regional level, you can be on call for Reserve for 15 hours, but only get paid for 4 (Endeavor's new contract). Guarantee is going from 11 to 12 days off. Sure, it's a bit higher per hour now, but it's still garbage in comparison.

MadmanX2

Unfortunately aviation is a step ladder career, and everyone starts at the bottom.

That said, airlines are not the only option in aviation. There are part 91 companies that fly excellent equipment with great QoL and very comfortable pay.

Right now I fly air ambulance, and before that I flew for bush outfits in Alaska, South America and Africa. A little rough and some were really austere places. It is satisfying to me to do jobs no one else wants.

I started flying at 38. A mid life career change for sure. I thought I wanted to fly for an airline, until I realized that it is not for me. Nothing wrong with airline flying at all. Some of my friends went that way. I am just not a tie and pressed shirt type of person.

Like yourself I was accustomed to living better than welfare wages, and I did take a pay cut to change careers. But overall is was worth it to me. I have been to much more interesting places than my airline friends, and yes, I found a bullet hole in the plane a few times, but what is life without excitement? Airlines. (Ok, kidding)

There is not really a pilot shortage. There is a shortage of qualified pilots. Yes, higher starting pay would be nice, but then everyone would want to fly, then there would be no pilot shortage, and wages would be low. Yes, pilots are our own worst enemies.

rickair7777

That may not be a bad approach. Take a few swings and if it's not working move on to better things. Too many folks get stuck at regionals (which is of course part of the scam).

But you might have benefited from some intense interview counselling? Like one-on-one practice sessions with a detailed record review?

Sort of a scam. They never promise you a major airline job (unless there's flow). They let inherently optimistic people rationalize themselves into it.

But the reason it pays so little is three-fold...

1) Pilots keep showing up.

2) RJ's in most cases cannot economically support mainline wages. This is fact, and it's not hard to do the math. The majority (> 50%) of RJ's would have to go away, taking jobs with them. There are of course some markets that could, but see #1.

Remember, demand for air travel is not a fixed value, it's variable based on several factors, and one of those is ticket price. Raise the price by X, and Y number of pax decide to stay home.

3) Mainline pilots don't want to fly crappy RJ trips. They don't want to work for < six figures. They understandably don't want to pay RJ drivers more, because it would come out of THEIR pockets.

I'm just going to enjoy spending time with my family and live off my meager military retirement.

Yes, I've always said that. But there's some mitigation. You can get some things done on the road, personal admin, military reserve work, PT, etc. Not a total loss. I don't count sleep, since I'm asleep.

By my calculation 15 days off (non-commute) is about break-even with a regular 9-5 job. But it's nice to actually be "off" on your days off, and not be distracted by emails and texts from the boss, the customer, team members, etc.


Majors are better, generally in all respects. Regionals are internships for most people.