Looking for advice about flying in the US
02-26-2018, 08:25 AM
#11
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,275
Originally Posted by aviatrix28
Hi everyone,
I’m in the same situation as aviator35. I’m trying to figure out if it’s worth self-sponsoring for the ATP-CTP (as I understand foreign ATP isn’t considered there) for a shot at the majors or if it’s better to just let a regional pay for it.
In addition to aviator35’s questions, I’d like to ask if anyone knows how Cruise Relief Pilot (Second Officer) time is counted by US airlines or the FAA. I have 2800 hrs, but 1900 hrs are from A330 & A340 CRP. I would sit on the right seat 2/3 of cruising time and wasn’t authorized to do take offs and landings on actual flights. I’d do 3 TOs and Landings on the sim every 90 days. Currently a 320 FO in Asia, but only 500 hrs on the type.
(I know this has been asked before on multiple threads, but I haven’t seen any concrete answers. I’m hoping someone can offer insight on this!)
I’m in the same situation as aviator35. I’m trying to figure out if it’s worth self-sponsoring for the ATP-CTP (as I understand foreign ATP isn’t considered there) for a shot at the majors or if it’s better to just let a regional pay for it.
In addition to aviator35’s questions, I’d like to ask if anyone knows how Cruise Relief Pilot (Second Officer) time is counted by US airlines or the FAA. I have 2800 hrs, but 1900 hrs are from A330 & A340 CRP. I would sit on the right seat 2/3 of cruising time and wasn’t authorized to do take offs and landings on actual flights. I’d do 3 TOs and Landings on the sim every 90 days. Currently a 320 FO in Asia, but only 500 hrs on the type.
(I know this has been asked before on multiple threads, but I haven’t seen any concrete answers. I’m hoping someone can offer insight on this!)
It's legally equivalent to any other SIC time, although all else being equal an airline might prefer an SIC who was actually PF for entire legs T/O to LDG.
02-26-2018, 08:58 AM
#12
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2016
Posts: 88
Originally Posted by rickair7777
100% positive. The reg says "121 or 135 time" and the FAA has clarified that to mean operations under US scheduled or non-scheduled regulations, not foriegn equivalents.
02-26-2018, 10:43 AM
#13
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 25
Originally Posted by rickair7777
The US considers CRP/IRO to be SIC time, since you need an SIC type and currency to sit in the seat in flight.
It's legally equivalent to any other SIC time, although all else being equal an airline might prefer an SIC who was actually PF for entire legs T/O to LDG.
It's legally equivalent to any other SIC time, although all else being equal an airline might prefer an SIC who was actually PF for entire legs T/O to LDG.
02-26-2018, 10:58 AM
#14
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,083
You’re overthinking this.
If you are a required crew member you can log SIC.
If your operation requires a 3-4 man Crew because of duty times or flight times you may count the entire flight duration as SIC.
Personally I don’t do that.
I just log in-seat time as SIC.
So your cruise relief pilot time is SIC time.
But you still need 1000 hrs SIC under FAA rules prior to upgrade.
That’s what the reg says.
Looking for 121.436 advice.
If you are a required crew member you can log SIC.
If your operation requires a 3-4 man Crew because of duty times or flight times you may count the entire flight duration as SIC.
Personally I don’t do that.
I just log in-seat time as SIC.
So your cruise relief pilot time is SIC time.
But you still need 1000 hrs SIC under FAA rules prior to upgrade.
That’s what the reg says.
Looking for 121.436 advice.
02-26-2018, 03:20 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 117
Originally Posted by Jatinsel
This is concerning- I know someone who is busy doing his upgrade as we speak with a regional airline who got most of his 8000 hours abroad- does the airline not know the regulations? Don’t tell me the FAA is going to prevent him from being PIC after all he has been through?
I still moved to the US but I commute to China for work.
02-27-2018, 06:25 AM
#16
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,275
Originally Posted by aviatrix28
Thanks! With that, should someone who logged CRP time somehow note that on his/her CV and application to avoid any sort of misrepresentation of time?
Look on the various airline applications... they slice and dice flight time in a lot of different ways but I don't recall any of the US airlines differentiating IRO time.
02-27-2018, 06:27 AM
#17
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,275
Originally Posted by Jatinsel
This is concerning- I know someone who is busy doing his upgrade as we speak with a regional airline who got most of his 8000 hours abroad- does the airline not know the regulations? Don’t tell me the FAA is going to prevent him from being PIC after all he has been through?
If they don't catch it right away and he gets on line, it could get ugly later. I think he needs to address that with the training dept and CMO leadership.
If the CMO lets him do it, then he'll probably get away with it, but remotely possible a future potential employer would notice the regulatory air gap at an interview.
You can look this one up on the FAA website, pretty sure Legal issued a letter addressing this.
02-28-2018, 09:09 PM
#18
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 25
Originally Posted by TiredSoul
You’re overthinking this.
If you are a required crew member you can log SIC.
If your operation requires a 3-4 man Crew because of duty times or flight times you may count the entire flight duration as SIC.
Personally I don’t do that.
I just log in-seat time as SIC.
So your cruise relief pilot time is SIC time.
But you still need 1000 hrs SIC under FAA rules prior to upgrade.
That’s what the reg says.
Looking for 121.436 advice.
If you are a required crew member you can log SIC.
If your operation requires a 3-4 man Crew because of duty times or flight times you may count the entire flight duration as SIC.
Personally I don’t do that.
I just log in-seat time as SIC.
So your cruise relief pilot time is SIC time.
But you still need 1000 hrs SIC under FAA rules prior to upgrade.
That’s what the reg says.
Looking for 121.436 advice.
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Not in the US, I'd log as SIC, just like all the US IRO's do.
Look on the various airline applications... they slice and dice flight time in a lot of different ways but I don't recall any of the US airlines differentiating IRO time.
Look on the various airline applications... they slice and dice flight time in a lot of different ways but I don't recall any of the US airlines differentiating IRO time.
Follow up question. Let's say I continue to build my time up to 4000-5000 hrs here in Asia (no TPIC since I don't see myself getting upgraded to the left anytime soon), would it be worth paying for an ATP-CTP so I can try applying for a major or are the chances still slim and is it better to go to a regional first and let them pay for it? How long are contracts with regional airlines?
03-01-2018, 06:52 AM
#20
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,083
Originally Posted by aviatrix28
I am overthinking! I have been for a while after reading a lot of different views on this, but this clears things up. Thank you.
Thank you. SIC it is. That works for me.
Follow up question. Let's say I continue to build my time up to 4000-5000 hrs here in Asia (no TPIC since I don't see myself getting upgraded to the left anytime soon), would it be worth paying for an ATP-CTP so I can try applying for a major or are the chances still slim and is it better to go to a regional first and let them pay for it? How long are contracts with regional airlines?
Thank you. SIC it is. That works for me.
Follow up question. Let's say I continue to build my time up to 4000-5000 hrs here in Asia (no TPIC since I don't see myself getting upgraded to the left anytime soon), would it be worth paying for an ATP-CTP so I can try applying for a major or are the chances still slim and is it better to go to a regional first and let them pay for it? How long are contracts with regional airlines?
Find a state with no income tax
https://taxfoundation.org/state-individual-income-tax-rates-brackets-2017/
Alternatively try one of the ACMI’s
Atlas, Kalitta, World Global ( or whatever their name is)
Charter flying with Miami Air, Swift or Sun Country on 737
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