Good Article on Pilot Shortage
05-10-2018, 07:15 AM
#31
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,273
Originally Posted by Pilatus801
I'm one of those blokes trying to calculate my ROI. I am 45, sitting at 220 hours and about to do my IFR checkride. I want to knock out my Commercial license in the next 30 days. But i look at how slowly my pilot hours are accruing and recognize that i am looking at years of low income work just to get to 1,500 hours. Presently, i work for a size able corporation, doing work I am tired of and earning a $72k annual salary. I may have a management option in a few years, but do not see myself staying at this company.
But to consider going to work as a CFI for a couple of years just to build time is demoralizing. Then to go make $45k-$60k for a few years as a Regional FO is also hard to imagine. I suppose by years 3-4 i may be back up to my present salary. So easily 4-5 years of going backwards financially from my present income level.
I would hope from there the wages increase significantly. I'd like to make it my career path but with my age, and comfortable living situation i have acquired, its a bit risky. I want to make a smart move and don't want to be a glutton for punishment. Yet, it seems that is somehow built into the industry for new pilots. You have to suffer and get kicked in the balls for a few years before things start to payoff.
I also worry about flying reserve and commuting to base. I'm pretty stuck to where i live in Salt lake due to custody of my kids and the old ex wife.
On the upside, i see wages and bonuses are increasing and i hope that trend continues. I also hope the entire pipeline of pilot opportunities will keep moving so that older guys in my shoes can move up in seniority a little quicker.
Thanks to all of you that provide positive and realistic feedback on these forums!!!
But to consider going to work as a CFI for a couple of years just to build time is demoralizing. Then to go make $45k-$60k for a few years as a Regional FO is also hard to imagine. I suppose by years 3-4 i may be back up to my present salary. So easily 4-5 years of going backwards financially from my present income level.
I would hope from there the wages increase significantly. I'd like to make it my career path but with my age, and comfortable living situation i have acquired, its a bit risky. I want to make a smart move and don't want to be a glutton for punishment. Yet, it seems that is somehow built into the industry for new pilots. You have to suffer and get kicked in the balls for a few years before things start to payoff.
I also worry about flying reserve and commuting to base. I'm pretty stuck to where i live in Salt lake due to custody of my kids and the old ex wife.
On the upside, i see wages and bonuses are increasing and i hope that trend continues. I also hope the entire pipeline of pilot opportunities will keep moving so that older guys in my shoes can move up in seniority a little quicker.
Thanks to all of you that provide positive and realistic feedback on these forums!!!
$72K is trivial in this conversation. If you have a degree (preferably with a good GPA), are healthy, and personable, there is a clear potential ROI for you due to timing in history... the escalator is running, and running fast (which is not always the case). With all bonuses, retirement factors, you'd make $150-$200K second-year at a mid/upper-tier major.
The caveat of course is risk... health problems, catastrophic economic issues, unknowns. Or maybe the recruiters just don't like the way you part your hair... but I think most majors no longer have enough candidates where they can exclude people for trivial reasons, assuming you've punched all the big tickets they want. Risk is always present, and always a consideration for those pursuing aviation. What's different right now is that there's not much risk of stagnation.
Now for a guy making $200K+ in the white-collar world, it's a much harder decision... aviation would require a significant cut in lifestyle, without any absolute certainty of ever getting it back. If spouse/family is involved, they'd need to be VERY supportive. IMO you'd really have to hate what you're doing now (which could be understandable if you're doing 80 hour weeks on wall street or the like).
Last edited by rickair7777; 05-10-2018 at 07:25 AM.
05-10-2018, 09:38 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Position: Family guy
Posts: 144
Originally Posted by rickair7777
You can easily commute out of SLC, it's near the big west coast bases, DEN, DFW, IAH, and not that far from ORD/MDW.
$72K is trivial in this conversation. If you have a degree (preferably with a good GPA), are healthy, and personable, there is a clear potential ROI for you due to timing in history... the escalator is running, and running fast (which is not always the case). With all bonuses, retirement factors, you'd make $150-$200K second-year at a mid/upper-tier major.
The caveat of course is risk... health problems, catastrophic economic issues, unknowns. Or maybe the recruiters just don't like the way you part your hair... but I think most majors no longer have enough candidates where they can exclude people for trivial reasons, assuming you've punched all the big tickets they want. Risk is always present, and always a consideration for those pursuing aviation. What's different right now is that there's not much risk of stagnation.
Now for a guy making $200K+ in the white-collar world, it's a much harder decision... aviation would require a significant cut in lifestyle, without any absolute certainty of ever getting it back. If spouse/family is involved, they'd need to be VERY supportive. IMO you'd really have to hate what you're doing now (which could be understandable if you're doing 80 hour weeks on wall street or the like).
$72K is trivial in this conversation. If you have a degree (preferably with a good GPA), are healthy, and personable, there is a clear potential ROI for you due to timing in history... the escalator is running, and running fast (which is not always the case). With all bonuses, retirement factors, you'd make $150-$200K second-year at a mid/upper-tier major.
The caveat of course is risk... health problems, catastrophic economic issues, unknowns. Or maybe the recruiters just don't like the way you part your hair... but I think most majors no longer have enough candidates where they can exclude people for trivial reasons, assuming you've punched all the big tickets they want. Risk is always present, and always a consideration for those pursuing aviation. What's different right now is that there's not much risk of stagnation.
Now for a guy making $200K+ in the white-collar world, it's a much harder decision... aviation would require a significant cut in lifestyle, without any absolute certainty of ever getting it back. If spouse/family is involved, they'd need to be VERY supportive. IMO you'd really have to hate what you're doing now (which could be understandable if you're doing 80 hour weeks on wall street or the like).
Yes, i consider my current wage to be less than desirable. Admittedly, i would be losing money for a few years just to get to 1,500 hours then a few years of FO regional employment. I am healthy, present well, professional and have a 4 year business degree. I recall my GPA from University was about 3.2, so nothing stellar. Clean work history, clean legal record, perfect credit score etc. I am Mr. responsible and reliable. I think i would present well to any airline that was looking to hire me. I would like to think i can suffer financially for a few years and then earn back much more than my current employment trajectory. At least that is what i keep telling myself as i contemplate going backward financially.
05-11-2018, 02:29 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: Part 135
Posts: 184
Originally Posted by kevbo
Im just trying to get by. The last 30 years of aviation have been horrible, I really threw my life away by pursuing it. A kid would certainly be no worse off in jail.
05-31-2018, 08:55 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Capt
Posts: 3,215
Originally Posted by Firefighterpilo
Where will a pilot easily hit 200k with no four year degree?
Did SWA drop the four year degree requirement? Alaskan? Jet Blue? Hawaiian?
06-01-2018, 07:07 AM
#36
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,469
Originally Posted by atpcliff
United, Omni, Kallita, Atlas.
Did SWA drop the four year degree requirement? Alaskan? Jet Blue? Hawaiian?
Did SWA drop the four year degree requirement? Alaskan? Jet Blue? Hawaiian?
06-01-2018, 10:38 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,211
UA data was posted by someone a year or two ago. Four year degree preferred but not required. Three of 1800 didn’t have a four year degree. If you think you’re the 1 in 600 guy that doesn’t need a degree I wouldn’t worry about getting the degree.
06-01-2018, 12:02 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 233
From The Heart...
If you are calculating ROI and doing Cost/Benefit analysis as to whether or not you want to be a Pilot....You probably will not do well if and when you get here.
This is something you " always wanted to do ". But Hmmm, not enough to have done so. Let that sink in.
Here's when you will "get it " : ...You won't be reading these forums. You will have put 80k, cash-on-the-barrellhead, and will have started your training. You will be sucking so hard on The Fire Hose of Aviation Knowledge that you will be too G. D. BUSY to worry about anything else.(!)
The disease will be evident, the addiction will have started, and YOU WILL BE LOVING IT.
But, as told to me years ago..." You HAVE to WANT this. "
DO YOU?
Forget the Bank Account and whatever else...You will either DO what you have claimed you always wanted to do or, you will be debating yourself as regards cost/family/details/impact etc. FOREVER.
And, maybe that's why it hasn't Happened so far...(?)
Good Luck To ALL.
STK
If you are calculating ROI and doing Cost/Benefit analysis as to whether or not you want to be a Pilot....You probably will not do well if and when you get here.
This is something you " always wanted to do ". But Hmmm, not enough to have done so. Let that sink in.
Here's when you will "get it " : ...You won't be reading these forums. You will have put 80k, cash-on-the-barrellhead, and will have started your training. You will be sucking so hard on The Fire Hose of Aviation Knowledge that you will be too G. D. BUSY to worry about anything else.(!)
The disease will be evident, the addiction will have started, and YOU WILL BE LOVING IT.
But, as told to me years ago..." You HAVE to WANT this. "
DO YOU?
Forget the Bank Account and whatever else...You will either DO what you have claimed you always wanted to do or, you will be debating yourself as regards cost/family/details/impact etc. FOREVER.
And, maybe that's why it hasn't Happened so far...(?)
Good Luck To ALL.
STK
Last edited by Stimpy the Kat; 06-01-2018 at 12:14 PM.
07-14-2018, 12:05 PM
#40
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 63
Interesting
I fly rotorcraft and there is definitely a shortage on our side of things. I am considering making a transition to fixedwing to have a chance at a more lucrative and less physically demanding career. Top out pay for us is 90k-110k. There's a few unicorn jobs that will take you to 140k but there is a very poor quality of life associated. As I continue to paroose the forums I appreciate hearing everyone's observations of the 121 industry. Anyone have an opinion on me making the jump across?
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