Valiant

Hi currently a truck driver have thought about long and hard for months. And it seems being a pilot is the only thing that pops into my mind. Would love to be cargo pilot. Don't like dealing in hospitality/customer service but wouldn't mind it if I really had to do it.

Contemplating 3 pathways to my goal

1)Get PPL, Instrument, Commercial at local flight school and then look for a Cessna 172 land survey or Caravan gigs for building time.

2)Get PPL, go to ATP and then to regionals

3)Go to a proper university and do the whole shabang in one go.

Which one would be best??

What are hiring mins for regionals??

What are hiring mins and total time requirements for majors?? Is there a difference between these two factors??

Do turbines/jets give u a better shot at majors as compared to turbo props like ATR or Saabs???

What are salaries like at the regionals??

I want this to be a serious thread for guidance not for useless banter.

Thanks

SoFloFlyer

Personally, I went to a community college and did my training that way. Went from 0-hero in about 22 months and finished with my AS degree. Transferred to a 4 year university all while keep the total all in cost at about $60k. Still cheaper than ATP.

They will finish you off about a year earlier. That reason is enough for some guys to cash out an additional $30k. Just depends where you are in life and what you prioritize. Personally, the college route helped me secure student loans so it worked out for me.

Regionals are hiring with 1500 hours total time (TT) with multiple sub hour requirement that falls under the 1500 hours.

Getting on at a major require at least 1000 121 SIC time (airline FO). To be competitive, you’ll need around 5000 TT - at least 1500 hours of 121 PIC time (airline CA) with a bachelors degree.

As far as jets go, it doesn’t really help unless it’s tome spent at the airlines. That’ll make you more competitive for the companies like Atlas Air/Southern Air (cargo companies), Spirit, and JetBlue. ATR and jets done really matter much anymore. Not in this hiring environment.

Regional airline salaries range anywhere from around $40k/year-$55k-ish/yr. That’s not including bonuses that added on top of that pay. I’m sure you’ll get more replies soon enough.

Hope this help!

rickair7777

That will work to build time to qualify for regionals, assuming you can get non-CFI low-time flying jobs (probably can in this market, but historically that's been a real biatch).

Assuming you mean get CFI ratings and then teach to 1500 hours, yes that's how most do it.

If you don't have a degree, that's a fast way to get it all done, especially since you can get an R-ATP and regional job at 1000 hours. But not going to be cheap...

Also possible to train, CFI, and attend a non-aviation state college in about the same time frame while saving money. That will require some hustle to get it all done as quickly.

Depends on your age and finances. Also family obligations... hard to really hustle with kids in the picture.

Pretty much all are at 1475 TT / 25 ME. Can be 1000 or 1200 TT if you train at an approved aviation university.

Mins are irrelevant unless you have a family member in management or are an affirmative action ticket holder. Or have a good record flying fighters.

For a "typical" civilian, right now the best majors start seriously looking at you around 5000 TT / 2000 121 jet PIC. Your odds improve as you trend towards 10,000/7,000. After that it gets harder (too old). Those numbers will likely come down a bit over the next five years.

But it's remotely possible (VERY remote) to get hired by some legacies with a couple thousand hours as an RJ FO. Don't plan on it, but do apply as soon as you meet the mins.

Some LCC/ULCC's will hire low-time regional FO's, and lack of TPIC (or college) might even be a plus... they know you won't bail for the big boys. LCC pay is pretty decent these days.

Yes. There were many exceptions in the past but that was when most commuter pilots flew turboprops. Today (except maybe SWA) they mostly want to see some glass jet time since there's mo shortage of RJ pilots out there. Lower training risk.

If you have some prop time in ADDITION to jet time, that's a bonus. Props are harder, but jets are faster. They want to know you can operate at jet speeds, but will appreciate prop experience. But if you have to pick one, do jets. Also single engine T-Prop time is a waste of time, unless you are under ATP mins.

With bonuses, start at $40K-60K. Typically upgrade in 2-4 years, that will be $60-80K. Stick around long enough and you'll get close to $150K (more for check airmen). Assuming the regional industry doesn't change much, which is not a safe bet at all.

TiredSoul

The “majors” are not the end all for everybody.
Even having a degree is no guarantee they’ll even give you the time of day.
Most pilots don’t end up at a Major so getting a degree is 50/50 to me.
I don’t have a degree and fly long haul cargo.
It sure beats 5-6 legs/day in a 737 with SouthWest but doesn’t pay as much.
I would emphasize you do this debt free at the pace that your income allows.
Save at least $10k before you start so you won’t have do many delays during your Private training.
After that pay as you go.
Market won’t always be as good, nobody can predict what happens in a year and you don’t want to be left holding a $60k-$90k debt with no flying job in sight.
PPL-IR-CPL-CFI, instruct for at least 500hrs before you take the next step.
Instructing is hugely rewarding and will teach you many things.
Also intended to diversify your “portfolio” and generate additional footprint to fall back on in case of an economic downturn in aviation.
With 750hrs total time head to Alaska and fly cargo or any other place that give you loads of Instrument time and approaches.
Get your ATP and start working on your PIC time.
In 5 years from today you could be right seat flying a wide body long haul cargo.

Valiant

Guys thanks for the replies. Very helpful.

Is it possible to start ATP fl school if i already have PPL and IR???

Will a university give me credit for all my ratings/certifications if I already am a pilot???

What Airline in general would you say should be my ultimate goal??

Which one has better QoL cargo or passenger???

Valiant

**Also what's a bit funny is that from what I've seen the airlines are kinda replicating what the OTR trucking industry is doing to couter their driver shortage due to retirements and attrition by giving out fine print bonuses and fancy marketing etc.

Valiant

So lemme get this straight. I have to have atleast 1000/1500 hrs on top of the 1500 for regionals right?? I was planning to start flinging resumes at 3000TT(some regional SIC and PIC time)

rickair7777

You don't HAVE to have 5000 hours to apply. You can (and should) apply as soon as you meet their mins which are typically 1000 turbine and ATP eligibility (ATP eligibility varies from 750, 1000, 1200, or 1500 depending on where you got trained). A few still also require 1000 TPIC.

You MIGHT get lucky and get called with very low time.

But for planning purposes right now assume a civilian will need 5000 TT and about 2000 TPIC to maybe get called by the big six. Those jobs pay many millions, for working 10-14 days/month... so there is competition.

You might well get hired by a ULCC with a 1,000+ regional SIC. But you'll probably stay there, since the big boys will prefer TPIC which you won't get for a number of years at a ULCC. So you have to decide, grab the first major job you can (almost all of them are good jobs these days), or hold out for the big six, which will probably be great jobs but are harder to get.

There are of course many other aviation options, but at this exact moment in time the best opportunities exist in pax majors. I'm honestly not even too sure about UPS/FDX right now. I always considered them pretty secure because of the utterly VAST cost and barriers to entry to start up a global package delivery network. But unfortunately the tech zillionaires HAVE those kind of resources and it looks like amazon is hell bent on building their own network. If they do it right (lots of outsourcing, like the regionals) they could keep labor costs low... much, much lower than Purple or Brown. Meas is one of the early entrants in that game, what more do you need to know

Valiant

Whats a ULCC?
So there's a difference between major and legacy?
Yeah Amazon threw a spanner in the whole cargo world.
Pardon the ignorance I am starting with 0 knowledge.

rickair7777

Legacy: Existed before deregulation AND did interstate flying (that last excludes SWA since they apparently only flew in TX before dereg). DL, UA, AA, AS, HA.

LCC: Vague and not clearly defined, but generally includes mid-range majors like JB. May include SWA and even AS, depends on who you ask.

ULCC: Vague and not clearly defined, but generally includes budget majors like Frontier, Allegiant, Spirit.

Major: All of the above. Sells their own tickets and operates at least narrowbody aircraft. The federal government has a different definition based on gross revenue, but we in the industry always bin airlines by their business model, not revenue.

Regional: Generally operates regional jets on contract with one of the legacy airlines. May do some or even all of their own branded flying. May do EAS. Operate about 50% of US domestic departures but most passenger have never heard of them.

Commuter: Typically operates smaller prop planes (even piston) on short routes. Typically own brand but may codeshare with a major.