Failed checkride
09-08-2019, 07:24 AM
#21
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 14
Originally Posted by rickair7777
....
But regarding EOC ,if they ask the question on an application or at an interview, the conventional wisdom is to be honest. Show me your logbook and I can find where you got signed off, took an EOC check flight, logged it as "training", got a remedial flight or two, signed off again, and then passed the second attempt. If I can spot it, so can the pros.
Knowing you went to a 141 school, they might ask that very question at the interview... awkward if you didn't report the failure on the application.
But the consensus is that intermediate stage checks are not what they mean when they ask about failures. I would not report those, although ultimately it's the interviewer who decides what his question really meant. But I don't even remember if ever had an incomplete stage check, so that would be hard for me to answer.
But regarding EOC ,if they ask the question on an application or at an interview, the conventional wisdom is to be honest. Show me your logbook and I can find where you got signed off, took an EOC check flight, logged it as "training", got a remedial flight or two, signed off again, and then passed the second attempt. If I can spot it, so can the pros.
Knowing you went to a 141 school, they might ask that very question at the interview... awkward if you didn't report the failure on the application.
But the consensus is that intermediate stage checks are not what they mean when they ask about failures. I would not report those, although ultimately it's the interviewer who decides what his question really meant. But I don't even remember if ever had an incomplete stage check, so that would be hard for me to answer.
I haven’t failed a stage check, progress check, EOC, phase check, or FAA checkride, (PPL SEL, IR, COM SEL, COM Multi addon). I do however, have flights occurring after the EOC, either because of a reposition to take the checkride at the DPEs airport, or because I might as well fly again if my ride isn’t for a couple days. One of my EOC flights took place 3 weeks before my FAA checkride so there is a flight after that EOC.
I have all my school grades printed out, with the syllabus annotating which lessons are which, and with each stage check/eoc grade sheet printed out as well. The grade sheets show minimum passing grades for the oral and flight tasks as well as comments, and I don’t have anything where I didn’t meet the minimum required grade.
Once the EOC is completed, it closes out the course and any flights afterwards show up as review/remedial. For example, I have a review/remedial flight before my FAA checkride, then another remedial/review after passing the checkride due to a reposition lol.
Is printing out what I have enough to save face when they see my logbook and wonder why I have flights occurring after EOC? Would they ask for what I have or would they cross reference through their own sources so they don’t think I fudged with the syllabus or grade sheets? Also, the cadet thing I applied for mentioned all stages of training including intermediate checks in like the middle of the course.
Thanks
Last edited by prayforwaves117; 09-08-2019 at 07:34 AM.
09-09-2019, 06:26 AM
#22
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,269
Originally Posted by prayforwaves117
I attended a part 141 school without self-examining authority. We had to go through an EOC ride to be recommended for the checkride and the FAA checkride was with a DPE, at the mercy of DPE availability.
I haven’t failed a stage check, progress check, EOC, phase check, or FAA checkride, (PPL SEL, IR, COM SEL, COM Multi addon). I do however, have flights occurring after the EOC, either because of a reposition to take the checkride at the DPEs airport, or because I might as well fly again if my ride isn’t for a couple days. One of my EOC flights took place 3 weeks before my FAA checkride so there is a flight after that EOC.
I have all my school grades printed out, with the syllabus annotating which lessons are which, and with each stage check/eoc grade sheet printed out as well. The grade sheets show minimum passing grades for the oral and flight tasks as well as comments, and I don’t have anything where I didn’t meet the minimum required grade.
Once the EOC is completed, it closes out the course and any flights afterwards show up as review/remedial. For example, I have a review/remedial flight before my FAA checkride, then another remedial/review after passing the checkride due to a reposition lol.
Is printing out what I have enough to save face when they see my logbook and wonder why I have flights occurring after EOC? Would they ask for what I have or would they cross reference through their own sources so they don’t think I fudged with the syllabus or grade sheets? Also, the cadet thing I applied for mentioned all stages of training including intermediate checks in like the middle of the course.
Thanks
I haven’t failed a stage check, progress check, EOC, phase check, or FAA checkride, (PPL SEL, IR, COM SEL, COM Multi addon). I do however, have flights occurring after the EOC, either because of a reposition to take the checkride at the DPEs airport, or because I might as well fly again if my ride isn’t for a couple days. One of my EOC flights took place 3 weeks before my FAA checkride so there is a flight after that EOC.
I have all my school grades printed out, with the syllabus annotating which lessons are which, and with each stage check/eoc grade sheet printed out as well. The grade sheets show minimum passing grades for the oral and flight tasks as well as comments, and I don’t have anything where I didn’t meet the minimum required grade.
Once the EOC is completed, it closes out the course and any flights afterwards show up as review/remedial. For example, I have a review/remedial flight before my FAA checkride, then another remedial/review after passing the checkride due to a reposition lol.
Is printing out what I have enough to save face when they see my logbook and wonder why I have flights occurring after EOC? Would they ask for what I have or would they cross reference through their own sources so they don’t think I fudged with the syllabus or grade sheets? Also, the cadet thing I applied for mentioned all stages of training including intermediate checks in like the middle of the course.
Thanks
The guy who gets caught in a deception/omission at that moment will be a deer-in-the-headlights, and won't have a good explanation.
09-09-2019, 02:47 PM
#23
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 42
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Reportable via PRIA? No at least not in the old days. I heard they were trying to include EOC checks in the new FAA database or PRIA, not sure where that stands. The big 141 flight schools pushed back hard on that, they make a lot of money by slipping pilots into the system without any OFFICIAL record of failures, it's a big selling point for them.
But regarding EOC ,if they ask the question on an application or at an interview, the conventional wisdom is to be honest. Show me your logbook and I can find where you got signed off, took an EOC check flight, logged it as "training", got a remedial flight or two, signed off again, and then passed the second attempt. If I can spot it, so can the pros.
Knowing you went to a 141 school, they might ask that very question at the interview... awkward if you didn't report the failure on the application.
But the consensus is that intermediate stage checks are not what they mean when they ask about failures. I would not report those, although ultimately it's the interviewer who decides what his question really meant. But I don't even remember if ever had an incomplete stage check, so that would be hard for me to answer.
But regarding EOC ,if they ask the question on an application or at an interview, the conventional wisdom is to be honest. Show me your logbook and I can find where you got signed off, took an EOC check flight, logged it as "training", got a remedial flight or two, signed off again, and then passed the second attempt. If I can spot it, so can the pros.
Knowing you went to a 141 school, they might ask that very question at the interview... awkward if you didn't report the failure on the application.
But the consensus is that intermediate stage checks are not what they mean when they ask about failures. I would not report those, although ultimately it's the interviewer who decides what his question really meant. But I don't even remember if ever had an incomplete stage check, so that would be hard for me to answer.
Another thing is a 141 EOC flight that didn’t have examining authority. Would an airline care about that? I failed 2x on one EOC flight but I passed my actual checkride first try with a DPE.
09-09-2019, 03:56 PM
#24
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,269
Originally Posted by ThisIsMe17
What about a 141 school with examining authority? I know those EOC flights aren’t PRIA reportable but I’ve been told to count that as a checkride since it’s for a certificate.
Another thing is a 141 EOC flight that didn’t have examining authority. Would an airline care about that? I failed 2x on one EOC flight but I passed my actual checkride first try with a DPE.
Another thing is a 141 EOC flight that didn’t have examining authority. Would an airline care about that? I failed 2x on one EOC flight but I passed my actual checkride first try with a DPE.
09-10-2019, 01:08 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Position: E170 CA/LCA
Posts: 621
Originally Posted by FlyPurdue
I failed two check rides, initial instrument and S/E commercial. These happened at a 61 school (guess which one 
). I always disclose my failures, and discuss the learnings...never been a problem. I do have a squeaky clean part 121 record...so far these are my only blemishes.
That being said, I recently used the FAA's new tool to lookup my own pilot records, and neither 'notice of disapproval' appears. I am obviously not going to change my story on my failures, but was wondering if this would look funny to the airline when they run my pilot background.
Thanks!
). I always disclose my failures, and discuss the learnings...never been a problem. I do have a squeaky clean part 121 record...so far these are my only blemishes. That being said, I recently used the FAA's new tool to lookup my own pilot records, and neither 'notice of disapproval' appears. I am obviously not going to change my story on my failures, but was wondering if this would look funny to the airline when they run my pilot background.
Thanks!
Purdue Grad here as well. Failed my PVT, ME, and CFI. completely clean 121 record. 10 years between last fail, hopefully I will get a call one day. Need to become a check airman I think to move on to a legacy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
09-10-2019, 02:33 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 627
Originally Posted by 170driver
Purdue Grad here as well. Failed my PVT, ME, and CFI. completely clean 121 record. 10 years between last fail, hopefully I will get a call one day. Need to become a check airman I think to move on to a legacy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
How long since your last type rating or upgrade? Having a recent training event would definitely help too
09-10-2019, 02:34 PM
#28
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,269
Originally Posted by jake cutter
Do 709 rides count against you, regardless of pass/fail? I assume some algorithms might punt it aside.
In the case of a CFI who got a 709 due to student actions/performance they would consider the underlying circumstances. Kind of like accident/incident might not be your fault at all.
But if there's a box to check for 709, that might filter your application to a lower priority, simply because it's more work for HR to adjudicate.
09-10-2019, 02:43 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Position: E170 CA/LCA
Posts: 621
Originally Posted by Bahamasflyer
What about some of the LCC's like Spirit, Frontier or Allegiant? I'd think having 3 busts might actually help you w them since they'd know you won't be called as quickly by a legacy as someone with no failures.
How long since your last type rating or upgrade? Having a recent training event would definitely help too
How long since your last type rating or upgrade? Having a recent training event would definitely help too
Upgrade about 2 years ago. Great QOL right now so not really wanting to give that up unless it’s a legacy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
09-10-2019, 02:46 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Position: E170 CA/LCA
Posts: 621
Originally Posted by 170driver
Upgraded about 2 years ago. Great QOL right now so not really wanting to give that up unless it’s a legacy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
hurricanechaser
Career Questions
10
11-30-2011 06:39 AM
