ThisIsMe17

I currently have 3 checkride fails (141 IFR with examining authority, CFI, CFII). I also have some 141 stage check fails (EOC fails that didn’t have self examining authority). My PRIA would show 2 fails (CFI/CFII). What are the chances I could make it to a top tier regional? How about majors?

I’ve learned from each of them and I take responsibility.

rickair7777

IMO, EOC checks which were NOT going to result in a certificate being issued don't count as "busts". IMO that's just training, and a determination that you need more training before the checkride. Otherwise every 141 student in that situation would have TWO jeopardy events for each cert/rating. Not really apples-to apples with 61. Same for intermediate stage checks.

Now with all that said, if an employer got really anal and threw a lot of extra adjectives into their question that might cover intermediate and EOC checks, than you might want to err on the conservative side. I started to see that a few years ago with some majors. But if the question is "Have you ever failed a checkride?" I think you can consider that to apply only if issuance of a cert/rating would result from a pass.

So you have two pink slips for instructor ratings which would probably show up on a PRIA or FOIA search. That will delay your interview call for the top tier, but somebody should hire you eventually (all else being equal).

The 141 examining authority bust will likely be considered a failure by airlines. As of right now that does not show up via PRIA but may in the future (possibly in PRD, which is still in development and NOT accurate or complete at this time). Whether you chose to hide that is up to you. As a former 141 guy I could probably spot it in your logbook, or at least determine that there may have been a bust, retraining, and retest... then I ask you about it. What are you going to say then? Delay more than about 2 seconds and you look dishonest. Multi-million dollar job on the line, what do you say? personally I would not put myself in that position.

Unfortunately admitting to three busts will make it harder to get called by most majors, and maybe never by some of the best. But it's better than more than three, which is probably a kiss of death. It helps that two of them were instructor ratings.

ThisIsMe17

Yeah I agree. I’ve always been honest about my record because I’d rather be upfront since they will find out eventually. Do you think I still have a chance at the top regionals currently?

I know the majors will be a little harder. The 141 EOC stage checks that I failed were only for completing the course. I only received a course certificate and then took the checkride with an actual DPE.

I know some AA wholly owned applications ask about any 141 training events but I’m not sure if the stage checks would count against me or just need to be reported? I also failed an upgrade flight that I have no shame in discussing. It was for a standardization flight at a flight school. I learned from all these events and I can’t hide them. So I took them as a learning experience.

Bahamasflyer

I don't want to start a new thread, but I have a question about what is considered a check ride failure, that has not been touched on in these discussions.....

Last year on my initial pt 135 qualification (sim ride) I received an "unsat" for my crosswind landings (examiner was more than fair BTW, and gave me 3 chances to notice my mistake, which I didn't. I forgot that there was a 10 kt XW in the sim and landed crabbed all 3 times, not even knowing about the XW).

So he has me redo the maneuver, and of course I nail it, transitioning from a crab to a slip in the flare. He's happy and it is finished in a satisfactory manner.

This was a "train to proficiency" checkride, unlike most other non AQP situations.

So on my PRIA, it indicated that the XW landings were initially "unsat", trained to proficiency, tested, and then completed satisfactory.

Below that, it states "Result of check" and the box "Approved" is checked.

The examiner told me that I can honestly answer "no" if ever asked if I've failed a checkride, which makes perfect sense, but just wanted to be absolutely sure that is indeed the case, since all of what I described here is in plain sight on my PRIA.

Thanks

rickair7777

I would agree with the examiner. What happens in the checkride, stays in the checkride (applies in 61 too, just doesn't get documented). Only the end result matters.

Bahamasflyer

Good analogy. Thx Rick as always!

molitvic13

You always have a career at Mesa lol