Oh, and by the way, I can't think of one reason NOT to continue an approach to landing when the only remaining engine is aflame. Think I could make the arguement of landing - even below mins. One could spend the rest of their life conducting an OEI go around in those conditions. I've only flown a hundred or so types of airplanes and, regardless of type, the eventual step with an engine fire is to shut the engine down and shoot the bottle. Complicates matters if the timing of that has to coincide with touching the runway.

 

jib3h0,

Yeah, I gave those of bad decision-making examples when priority is given to wrong thing. That is, if the aircraft is running out of fuel, shooting the CAT III is clearly the better choice. If your one good engine catches fire, now is not the time to demonstrate your engine-securing procedures and checklist usage.

There are endless variations and that's why I believe it's more of a thought process and not always a perfect-world answer.

 

Getting back to the original question, what would you guys do in this scenario? Let's assume, there are no fires and the alternate that should be there vanished. I am curious because I fly alone, and would never consider this type of question otherwise. Thanks.

 

This is a nicely openended question which will allow you to either stand out or look like an idiot.

I believe that they are less interested in the actual answer than in the chain of logic that leads you to your answers.

Declare an emergency. This gives you all kinds of help.

Like all airborne emergencies, above all, fly the airplane. This is most easily accomplished by having the F/O fly the plane on autopilot and deal with ATC while the Captain deals with the problem.

Many 121 operations manuals spell out in excrutiating detail what to do in the case of passenger illness.

First, don't even think about going back into the cabin to look at the passenger yourself. This is a security violation in that he may be faking to allow his terrorist friends to get into the cockpit when you come out.

Second, use all onboard medical help. This will usually start with a PA for medical professionals who may be onboard. Medical professionals certainly include doctors and nurses, but may also include med techs and veteranarians. 121 aircraft above a certain size must also carry an enhanced medical kit and an AED, which can be offered to the medical professional.

Third, use offboard assistance. Most 121 operators have a doctor either on staff or on call to assist in airborne medical emergencies. It may be useful for a F/A to come up to the cockpit to talk with the doctor on the ground. Dispatch can help with your decision making process and call ahead for the ambulance etc. Perhaps the airport that is 1:30 away has minimal medical facilities but an airport 1:40 away in a different direction is very close to a major heart center. These are not answers that you would be likely to know, but dispatch either knows or can find out much more quickly than you can.

This is all to aid you, the Captain, in deciding what to do with your aircraft and passengers. You may decide, based on what you hear, that the pax has an excellent chance of dying no matter what you do. You may decide that he has an excellent chance of living even if you go to the farther airport. In either of these cases the decision is easy. The only time a decision really exists is if a qualified medical person says that this person must get on the ground as soon as possible, and that any delay will kill him. This is when you must weigh the risks of a below minimums approach to the other passengers and crew against the life of this single person. That's why the Captain gets paid the big bucks.

You may take into consideration what type of below minimum conditions exist. Is it freezing rain with an out of limits crosswind to an airport in the mountains requiring a circling approach at night? Easy decision. Is it a calm day with dense fog to a CAT III ILS approach with an aircraft that is equipped with redundant autoland and auto rollout centerline tracking? This may be a harder decision.

I've made my decision, and it may or may not be the same one you would make, and there may not be a right answer.

In any case I believe that this question is not about what decision you make, but the thinking aloud about what you consider in arriving at your decision.

Joe

 

Well said, Joe.

 

Joe is correct, I think. They are more interested in your logic process. The problem was deliberately set up with no obvious 100% right answer...this will require thinking it through, and will also identify those "can't see the forest for the trees" types who will get wrapped up around a single FAR while all heck is breaking lose.

 

Another excellent post joepilot. Welcome to APC and I look forward to reading more of your superior quality posts.

 

Assuming a takeoff alternate was filed, couldn't you immediately head in that direction, declare an emergency, talk to ATC and/or company to determine feasability of other nearby airports? Dispatch should be able to give you performance numbers and weather for airports along the path towards the T/O alternate. Should one look at or above minimums and have the required performance, put the airplane on the ground. Hopefully ATC or company has rolled the trucks out to meet you.

Would this be a potentially good move? In the absense of any information, head to the alternate. Then as more info is gained (and assuming it is determined that an ASAP landing is needed) from your resources, company and ATC, make a decision to try a non filed airport assuming wx and performance are good.

 

You all have extremely valuable input here - my advice is to pay special attention to dundem and joepilot's posts. They couldn't be more accurate.

It IS about YOUR process. They are about to put you in a multi-million dollar airplane with a lot of lives at stake...how will you handle it when %*^$ hits the fan?

There is not a clear-cut answer for good reason. They need to understand how you sort through an emergency situation.

There have been many people who don't pick the "best possible answer" yet get the job. Why? I'm glad you asked.... because they exhibited a good process - they showed the interviewers they were able to think it through, work with their team and come to a conclusion. THAT is something the training department can work with.

It's like figuring a descent rate question. If you pop off the wrong answer you are simply wrong. If you talk out how you arrive at your answer they can see you are on the right path of thinking...even if you get the answer wrong.

The second part to the LOI is the debrief. Can you see and accept your mistake?

Best advice is to say everything you are thinking out loud.

LET THEM SEE YOU

By the way... it won't behoove you to memorize the diffferent LOI scenarios - they change all the time.

 

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