Competitive Qualifications?
04-23-2009, 04:24 PM
#1
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: C-17A
Posts: 97
Competitive Qualifications?
Hey everyone,
In summer of 2009 I will be graduating from a nationally recognized part 141 aviation college with a degree in Aviation Administration. I am wondering what the most competitive qualifications I can work towards are, and how I currently stack up for an entry level job at either a regional airline or aerial work outfit. Here are my current qualifications.
-25 years of age.
-Three years airline experience with Delta as ramp and counter agent.
- One year of De-icing experience with a major national De-icing company.
- Currently overseeing the day-to-day operations of a small flight school.
-Commercial multi-engine pilot
-Working towards single engine commercial add-on.
-Considering CFI initial over the summer.
200 hours total time, 50 multi-engine all part 141.
-Flown PA-28, PA-44 and SR-20
-Four year degree (Summer 09) from a major aviation college with a 3.6 overall GPA.
As you can see I have a few qualifications to work with such as my airline experience but my overall time is pretty low. I am not sure If I wish to start my CFI initial because of the price but. Is it really that sought after as a prerequisite for a job? I'm not very interested in teaching. Any comments would be extremely helpful. I am most intrested in working for a aerial work outfit such as Air America or another surveying company to log more overall flight time or if possible apply directly to a regional airline, air cargo has also attracted my attention.
In summer of 2009 I will be graduating from a nationally recognized part 141 aviation college with a degree in Aviation Administration. I am wondering what the most competitive qualifications I can work towards are, and how I currently stack up for an entry level job at either a regional airline or aerial work outfit. Here are my current qualifications.
-25 years of age.
-Three years airline experience with Delta as ramp and counter agent.
- One year of De-icing experience with a major national De-icing company.
- Currently overseeing the day-to-day operations of a small flight school.
-Commercial multi-engine pilot
-Working towards single engine commercial add-on.
-Considering CFI initial over the summer.
200 hours total time, 50 multi-engine all part 141.
-Flown PA-28, PA-44 and SR-20
-Four year degree (Summer 09) from a major aviation college with a 3.6 overall GPA.
As you can see I have a few qualifications to work with such as my airline experience but my overall time is pretty low. I am not sure If I wish to start my CFI initial because of the price but. Is it really that sought after as a prerequisite for a job? I'm not very interested in teaching. Any comments would be extremely helpful. I am most intrested in working for a aerial work outfit such as Air America or another surveying company to log more overall flight time or if possible apply directly to a regional airline, air cargo has also attracted my attention.
04-23-2009, 06:11 PM
#2
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 12
A better question would be to ask who is hiring. There are so few outfits hiring and so many applicants we're all having a tough time.
get the CFI for several reasons, very little hiring going on and you will probably need to build time, getting the cfi will improve your pilot skills and you will learn more about flying in the first 100 hours instructing then you have in the rest of your training and experiences.
Plus flight instructing is a really fun job if you let it be. I have had students take me on vacation, take me out to fancy dinners, invite me over to their house for gourmet bbq and have made some great friends.
get the CFI for several reasons, very little hiring going on and you will probably need to build time, getting the cfi will improve your pilot skills and you will learn more about flying in the first 100 hours instructing then you have in the rest of your training and experiences.
Plus flight instructing is a really fun job if you let it be. I have had students take me on vacation, take me out to fancy dinners, invite me over to their house for gourmet bbq and have made some great friends.
04-24-2009, 04:02 AM
#3
Flying Farmer
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Turbo-props' and John Deere's
Posts: 3,160
Basically as stated above, you're going to need to get your CFI, or have some really generous friends to pay you to fly their planes. No one at a commercial operation is going to hire you. Now maybe 2yrs ago, they were pulling anyone with wet-ink on their Comm/Multi to fill the right seat of all the Regionals, but that's been a moot point for over a year.
To be competitive for that type of job you're going to need 500+(more like 1000+) TT with who knows what MEL time.
Being a CFI is going to enrich your knowledge of flight, and if you don't feel you've learned more as a CFI than you did as a student, you weren't trying very hard! Plus this gives you a rating that I highly recommend you renew every 2 years regardless if you use it or not!!!
Anyways, I digress, get the CFI, learn something, teach others, get paid to fly, build that time, make the connections, and get the job you are truly seeking. Good luck!
To be competitive for that type of job you're going to need 500+(more like 1000+) TT with who knows what MEL time.
Being a CFI is going to enrich your knowledge of flight, and if you don't feel you've learned more as a CFI than you did as a student, you weren't trying very hard! Plus this gives you a rating that I highly recommend you renew every 2 years regardless if you use it or not!!!
Anyways, I digress, get the CFI, learn something, teach others, get paid to fly, build that time, make the connections, and get the job you are truly seeking. Good luck!
04-24-2009, 06:11 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: EMB-170 FO
Posts: 383
I'm 29, have 1600+ TT, 250 ME, CFI, CFII, MEI, 1300+ as a CFI, B.S. in Aeronautical Science and I'm 9 credits away from a M.S. in Aeronautical Science (Operations). I don't think that I'm competitive enough for a regional with all the furloughed pilots out there with thousands of hours of airline experience, jet time and multiple type ratings which is why I'm working on my ATP-ME (not that its going to help a lot).
I suggest the CFI route to build some flight time and most of all experience.
I suggest the CFI route to build some flight time and most of all experience.
04-24-2009, 08:28 AM
#5
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: C-17A
Posts: 97
Thanks for the comments, I was actually thinking that I might get the CFI over the summer then move back home to Buffalo, NY and try to get in with an aerial surveying outfit. I have heard that you can accumulate around 500 hours or more in seven months flying for them. Does anyone have any opinions of those types of outfits?
04-24-2009, 10:00 AM
#6
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,189
Realistically your qualifications are as follows:
- Four Year Degree (the major doesn't matter)
- 200/50 TT/ME
None of that other stuff really matters, and when hiring resumes, they will be looking at furloughed RJ pilots with 1000+ hours, and at least hundreds of ME/Turbine/121 time.
Get the CFI/CFII for sure. Feel free to explore arial survey, but remember you will be competing with those furloughed airline pilots. I would plan on working as a CFI for 2-3 years, and if you get lucky maybe you will find a low-time, non-instructor job.
Sounds like you don't want to instruct...but there are plenty of CFI's who don't want to instruct either, and they all have more time than you, and will be more competitive for survey, traffic watch, skydive, etc.
If you are looking at entry-level cargo, those are all going to be part 135 operations, which require 1200 TT to be PIC. Since most of the airplanes are operated single-pilot, they usually require all new-hires to have the 1200, plus 100 ME is common. Those jobs usually go to CFI's who have built some time already.
- Four Year Degree (the major doesn't matter)
- 200/50 TT/ME
None of that other stuff really matters, and when hiring resumes, they will be looking at furloughed RJ pilots with 1000+ hours, and at least hundreds of ME/Turbine/121 time.
Get the CFI/CFII for sure. Feel free to explore arial survey, but remember you will be competing with those furloughed airline pilots. I would plan on working as a CFI for 2-3 years, and if you get lucky maybe you will find a low-time, non-instructor job.
Sounds like you don't want to instruct...but there are plenty of CFI's who don't want to instruct either, and they all have more time than you, and will be more competitive for survey, traffic watch, skydive, etc.
If you are looking at entry-level cargo, those are all going to be part 135 operations, which require 1200 TT to be PIC. Since most of the airplanes are operated single-pilot, they usually require all new-hires to have the 1200, plus 100 ME is common. Those jobs usually go to CFI's who have built some time already.
04-24-2009, 10:28 AM
#7
New Hire
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: BE-350 / 200 / Bell 407 Captain
Posts: 5
I also agree with the advice given. Continue with your instructor ratings through the MEI and build time. At some point things will turn around and you'll be in a good position to take advantage of it. Unless you have a job where you can afford to pay for the hours, take advantage of instructing. You may find that you'll come to enjoy it.
04-24-2009, 11:19 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 744 CA
Posts: 4,772
At this point.... CFI'ing is about your only option. Its always possible to luck into something.... but you are gonna need another 1000 hours of flight time to be anything more than barely competitive in this invironment. I know dozens of guys right now with 3-4000+ hours...ATPs... several thousand turbine and ME time and still cant find ANY type of flying job......
Good luck!!
Good luck!!
04-24-2009, 01:15 PM
#9
Guppy Half-Wing FO
Joined APC: Oct 2007
Position: 737 Right Seat
Posts: 142
Think Guard or AF. Look into the National Guard in Buffalo. You never know!
HercDriver130 is right. Someone having ATP/5000 hours/4800 ME and can't get a job...Oh yeh that's me. I am part of the biggest unemployed pilots union...no dues required just understanding and compasion.
But, if you want to fly....CFI will allow to to gain hours and maintain currency. I was a military flight IP and learned more in my first two months to last a life time. Example: Gave a student an simulated engine out in the crosswind turn..he stepped on the wrong rudder and I wasn't ready for it. The homes never looked so close. But after nine years of being an IP, it is some of the most rewarding flying you will do...Nothing tops the smile when someone finally figures it out.
Keep the faith in the industry and it will turn around.
HercDriver130 is right. Someone having ATP/5000 hours/4800 ME and can't get a job...Oh yeh that's me. I am part of the biggest unemployed pilots union...no dues required just understanding and compasion.
But, if you want to fly....CFI will allow to to gain hours and maintain currency. I was a military flight IP and learned more in my first two months to last a life time. Example: Gave a student an simulated engine out in the crosswind turn..he stepped on the wrong rudder and I wasn't ready for it. The homes never looked so close. But after nine years of being an IP, it is some of the most rewarding flying you will do...Nothing tops the smile when someone finally figures it out.
Keep the faith in the industry and it will turn around.
04-27-2009, 02:07 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 382
Go get your instructor ratings, even if you don't want to use them it's still something good for your resume. In fact, you really don't have any other options, plus you'll learn more as an instructor in the first couple months than you would after a year of traffic watch or aerial survey or whatever. You will most likely not find work doing anything besides instructing anyway (even instucting jobs are pretty hard to find right now) with your qualifications. For the record, I'm the same age as you with nearly 3000tt, 1500multi, 2000pic and 1100 cfi. I have an atp-cfii-mei, 4 year degree and I can't find a flying job. I've sent out a couple hundred resumes. Good luck and be realistic, take what you can get and make yourself as qualified as you can. Also, the military would be a great option for you. I'm working on getting a slot right now but as you might know, it's not the quickest process so even if you decide to pursue that route, you'll want to have something to do in the meantime. Best of luck!
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