BdubNYC

Hello All,

I am new to APF, as this is my first post. I am looking to go to an academy in Atlanta next year after I finish my college degree. This December I am going to get my 1st class medical, and had some questions about blemishes on my record. I have 2.

When I was 3 days over the age of 18, I stole a 6 pack of beer. Possibly one of the dumbest thing's I have ever done in my life. I had always been a grade A student in high school and honestly had a "wow-super-dumb-moment". My charge was petty theft. This was nearly 8 years ago.

I then had another incident a few after that. This charge was expunged, I believe due to the fact that charge was, as my lawyer put it: "bullS*#t". I was arrested for setting fireworks off at a fireworks show. We were waiting in the parking lot for the show to begin and we set some of our own off. They threw the book at us - reckless endangerment, and possession of fireworks. When we went to our hearing, the judge pretty much looked at us as if it was a pretty stupid reason to arrest someone, and the charge was expunged.

Now, I have an absolutely clean NDR (just got it). No speeding tickets. I will be graduating with a Bachelors Degree this spring, was an RA at my college. Blah, blah, blah. These infractions in no way summarize the content of my character. What are we looking at for my 1st class medical?

How will these infractions, if any, impede my ability to move forward and enroll in school. I have already been on my intro flight, and the school would absolutely love to have me. I just contacted my lawyer - and he said that I absolutely DID NOT have to mention the fireworks because I was never convicted of anything. Would citing these two "moronic-moments" in any way hold me back from receiving my 1st class medical?

I give many thanks in advance to all of your advice.

Kind Regards

rickair7777

This kind of thing gets complicated with regards to aviation.

For the FAA medical: The form will ask about DUI type arrests or convictions, and about all other misdemeanor/felony convictions.

- I think you do not have to report the fireworks. It was not a DUI type arrest, and there was no conviction.

- I think you do need to report the theft conviction (I assume you were convicted or plead guilty?).

For TSA Background Checks: There is a list of disqualifying crimes for airport employees (including airline pilots). One of these is "dishonesty", not sure if theft falls under that, but it also only goes back 7 years so you are probably OK there.

For airline employment: They may ask some additional questions in addition to the TSA background check. What they can ask may vary by state law wherever the airline is headquartered.

Also note that airlines have special access to the FBI's master crime database. This database takes snapshots of state, local, federal, and international databases and then keeps them. Assume the FBI will NEVER EVER delete any information. An expungement may apply to state/local records, but since the FBI database is used for intelligence and national security purposes they want to keep all the info they acquire. For this reason you may just want to be honest with an airline. If you lie and they find out later you will be 100% fired, and will never work in the airlines again. Local lawyers may not know what level of access the airlines have...best to talk to one who specializes in aviation employment. Rules which apply to run-of-the-mill employers may not apply to airlines.

The fireworks thing is no big deal, especially since there was no conviction. That was just youthful exuberance and will not be an issue as long as you acknowledge that you have matured and would not do it again.

The theft is a bigger issue, but it helps that it was minor, a long time ago, and you were young. Best thing to do is own up to it, tell them what you learned, and move on to the next subject.

Also...do some reading here about flight schools. Those big academies are usually rip-offs, and their graduates are not highly regarded in professional aviation circles. You are in no hurry...there are no entry-level airline jobs right now and there are not likely to be any for several years. In three years or so, you will probably need an ATP to be employed as an FO at an airline...better have a plan for that.

BdubNYC

RickAir,

Thanks for your response. I have seen many of your postings, and your knowledge regarding many issues is more than helpful. I just want to clarify on some things:

For the FAA medical - you don't foresee an issue with my infractions? How could these get in the way of a first class medical. I'm just a little confused as to how these are viewed in the context of a medical exam.

With my history - you don't think these are game changers? I still have to go through my flight training, so I wouldn't be looking at an airline interview for some time - so the the theft would probably even be past the 10 year FBI mark. In that case - being after 10 years, would I claim a theft violation if it wouldn't show up on a FBI check? I'm young (25), and these infractions happened when I was 18, and when in college. I'm hoping they'll be viewed as stupid child acts - which they were. I'm literally never in trouble, haven't even been pulled over for a traffic violation.

I understand I should also seek some advice through a different outlet, you just seem to know what you're talking about through my continued research on this forum.

Thanks for your help.

Regards

Twin Wasp

The TSA asks about convictions in the last ten years, don't know how far back they check. The item about "dishonesty or fraud" is at a felony level so you wouldn't check that box. Whether you tell the airline you you have a old petty theft charge, you've got a few years to figure that out.

rickair7777

For the medical, they have three separate concerns when asking about criminal activity:

1) Substance Abuse, DUI, etc: They do not want to issue a medical to someone who is addicted to something...eventually that person will try to fly under the influence.

2) Other criminal activity: In some cases this is just youthful bad judgement, but in other cases where there is consistent pattern it could indicate mental instability. They might require a psych eval.

The good news about the medical form...the airlines don't normally have access to your FAA medical file so even though you have to tell the FAA about the theft conviction the airlines will not find out from the FAA (FBI is another story though).

3) The FARs require that an ATP (airline captain) be of "Good Moral Character". Since you never have to renew your pilot license, they like to check up on this when you renew your medical. An extensive criminal record would probably be disqualifying for a first class medical, which is required for an ATP. I'm sure you will be fine on this.

Historically you would not have a problem. You would certainly not be the first pilot who did something like that in his youth.

IIRC the TSA background requirement is seven years, not ten. But the FAA medical form goes back forever.

But as far as the FBI database goes...assume that the airlines may be able to see any conviction, no matter how far back. I'm not too sure about arrests. If you get caught lying you are really hosed in this industry.

I'm pretty sure your background will be fine, but the only possible concern is the recent colgan airlines crash. It came to light that the captain had a history of poor pilot performance which the company did not know about (or so they say). Congress is demanding that the airlines increase their hiring standards...I suspect this will apply mostly to pilot abilities and experience. Again your situation is not uncommon. Although there is some uncertainty due to colgan and the new law I'm pretty sure that you will not be affected.

Here's what I would do...

Be 100% honest on the FAA medical form. The consequences of getting caught are too high, and the FAA will check your name against the FBI database.

Be 100% honest on the TSA background form. This is a federal form, with federal jail time for lying. The way I see it you will be outside the time window when the time comes anyway so you won't have to report it.

When you interview, the airlines may or may not ask about arrest and convictions (in addition to the TSA requirements). If they ask I would be honest, since you might show up on the FBI database. This one is your call...as long as you don't lie to the FAA or TSA you won't go to jail.

Twin Wasp

It's all in the regs -

(b) Individuals seeking unescorted access authority. ... each airport operator must ensure that no individual is granted unescorted access authority unless the individual has undergone a fingerprint-based CHRC that does not disclose that he or she has a disqualifying criminal offense, as described in paragraph (d) of this section.
(c) ....
(d) Disqualifying criminal offenses. An individual has a
disqualifying criminal offense if the individual has been convicted, or
found not guilty of by reason of insanity, of any of the disqualifying
crimes listed in this paragraph (d) in any jurisdiction during the 10
years before the date of the individual's application for unescorted
access authority, or while the individual has unescorted access
authority. The disqualifying criminal offenses are as follows--
(1) Forgery of certificates, false marking of aircraft, and other
aircraft registration violation; 49 U.S.C. 46306.
(2) Interference with air navigation; 49 U.S.C. 46308.
(3) Improper transportation of a hazardous material; 49 U.S.C.
46312.
(4) Aircraft piracy; 49 U.S.C. 46502.
(5) Interference with flight crew members or flight attendants; 49
U.S.C. 46504.
(6) Commission of certain crimes aboard aircraft in flight; 49
U.S.C. 46506.
(7) Carrying a weapon or explosive aboard aircraft; 49 U.S.C. 46505.
(8) Conveying false information and threats; 49 U.S.C. 46507.
(9) Aircraft piracy outside the special aircraft jurisdiction of the
United States; 49 U.S.C. 46502(b).
(10) Lighting violations involving transporting controlled
substances; 49 U.S.C. 46315.
(11) Unlawful entry into an aircraft or airport area that serves air
carriers or foreign air carriers contrary to established security
requirements; 49 U.S.C. 46314.
(12) Destruction of an aircraft or aircraft facility; 18 U.S.C. 32.
(13) Murder.
(14) Assault with intent to murder.
(15) Espionage.
(16) Sedition.
(17) Kidnapping or hostage taking.
(18) Treason.
(19) Rape or aggravated sexual abuse.
(20) Unlawful possession, use, sale, distribution, or manufacture of
an explosive or weapon.
(21) Extortion.
(22) Armed or felony unarmed robbery.
(23) Distribution of, or intent to distribute, a controlled
substance.
(24) Felony arson.
(25) Felony involving a threat.
(26) Felony involving--
(i) Willful destruction of property;
(ii) Importation or manufacture of a controlled substance;
(iii) Burglary;
(iv) Theft;
(v) Dishonesty, fraud, or misrepresentation;
(vi) Possession or distribution of stolen property;
(vii) Aggravated assault;
(viii) Bribery; or
(ix) Illegal possession of a controlled substance punishable by a
maximum term of imprisonment of more than 1 year.
(27) Violence at international airports; 18 U.S.C. 37.
(28) Conspiracy or attempt to commit any of the criminal acts listed
in this paragraph (d).

Lori Clark

There seems to be a bit of confusion with regard to background checks.
The 28 automatic disqualifying criminal offenses is with regard to only the TSA and obtaining a SIDA badge. (Thanks for posting the list Twin Wasp.) It is a 10-year lookback. By the time you are ready to apply to an airline which requires a SIDA badge those 10 years should be a distant memory.

The airline does have access to the FBI database and will obtain ALL activity within your record. This includes arrests. Expunction, like rickair stated, really only applies to the joe-schmoe employer, insurance company, etc. Not the airlines, they will see all.
The record the airline receives will show the original charge, arrest and disposition of the crime. So in the case of the fireworks it would most likely read "charges dismissed" or similar.

Over the years airlines have become more savvy and many now ask about any arrests on their application. So be prepared to talk about these incidents in your interview. I wouldn't worry too terribly much about it as this should be quite easily discussed and interpreted - what you have going for you is that you had not chosen our wonderfully conservative profession yet so you will not be held (subjectively speaking) to the same standard as someone who already obtained their commercial license, which deems them a "professional" in this industry. Prepare yourself to accept responsibility for your actions and talk about how you grew personally from that experience. Accountability is crucial.

These incidents shouldn't stop your career. Keep your nose clean from here on out though, airlines look for patterns of behavior.

By the way, the NDR is a reporting agency for moving violation related charges, so these incidents wouldn't show up in that record.