CFI Guy

Thanks for all the advice. I passed on the two regional interviews I had this month. I felt bad about it for a minute but then met up with an old friend who has been flying for the regionals for the past 3yrs. He is absolutely miserable and desperately trying to get out. The airline filed BK and his pay got slashed. The future isn't looking so great for him.

I agree I should have got my ATP by now. I took the written test almost a year ago. I was just hoping by now I would have been hired somewhere where I'd get typed and get my ATP at the same time.

I've networked and had a couple interviews but so far no luck. When I got out of school and started instructing in 2008 the economy was doing pretty bad. I remember being at the flight school and talking to out of work corporate guys coming in the door at least a few times a week desperately looking for CFI work. I looked at these guys with thousands of hours and type ratings unable to find work which discouraged me from even looking for jobs. I just kept instructing and building hours happy to at least make a decent income.

I'm at the point now though where I don't know how long I can keep working at this pace. I'm 36 and my hair is going grey, my neck and my back hurts, and the bags are already starting to form under my eyes. My business has been doing pretty well but I don't have the influx of new students as I once did. I haven't really done any marketing so I'm sure that would help. The reality is I'm getting older and have no health insurance or benefits. If I want to take a week vacation then I pay for it out of pocket and risk losing business. The stress of it all is starting to take a toll on me.

I'm going to continue looking for flying jobs but I'm also considering doing something related to aviation. Does anyone have experience in charter sales? There are a couple companies hiring which offer a pretty good base salary and benefits. Before I returned to school for my flight certs I spent over 10yrs in sales and finance working for the banks. I don't have any recent sales experience but I still think I have the knack for it. I think it's part of what has made me successful in what I'm doing now.

Ironically, I left my previous industry because I was bored and tired of working off commission with a small base salary. Every month I worried about what was going to happen the next month or 6 months down the road. I made very good money for years until the market collapsed which was right before I got out in 2007. Now I make a fraction of the money and worried what I'm doing the next day or week (bad weather, broken planes, students cancellations). Part of what attracted me to flying was the allure of not taking your job home with you. But instead I constantly worry about my future. I'm just terrified of waking up and in a couple years and figuring out I've just been spinning my wheels over a pipe dream. Part of me also says don't quit now and my hard work will pay off.

Decisions, decisions....

USMCFLYR

It sounds like you are acting as an independent businessman - ala freelance instructor.

The feelings that you are having above happen to all freelance workers, contractors, small business owners, etc....
It is the nature of having to drum up your own business, or in the case of my short time of contract flying, being paid by the flight hour with none of the protections of usual P135/121 rules and regs.
I have a friend who does photography in the San Diego area. He tells me that his number one worry in making the move from Maryland was making the required contacts and networking in a brand new area and having to re-establish himself all over again in a competitive market.

In previous posts, JNB gave you an idea of many different avenues in aviation in which to venture out for employment opportunities. Portfo mentions getting your ATP and instantly making yourself more marketable to a wider variety of flying positions. You certainly seem set on the airline route, yet when given the opportunity for the two interviews you turn them down. Unless cost of the interviewing process was prohibitive, you probably should have at least attended the interviews for the experience before turning down the supposed job offer.

PeopleMover90

Just know the longer you wait to go airline, the more seniority you pass up. Its an easy, easy way to get jet time if you need it. i am a two leg commuter and deal with it, a direct flight across the country may not be the worst thing. the worst thing would be not having a job. but, if you plan to use the regionals to time build, my advice is saty at least 2 years....otherwise the 2 months of training, then reserve, plus commuting, isnt worth it if you only stay 9 or 12 months.

rickair7777

IMO the freelance instructor business is a hard way to go for a career. It almost seems better suited to a part-time hobby with a real job for the benefits. Or get a DPE...that way you make enough money in four hours that you don't have to work your butt off if you don't want to. But that's like being a "made man" in general aviation...the waiting list is long and you have to be buds with your local feds.

Another avenue is look to flight schools (especially 141). A chief pilot/instructor can make decent money with benefits and vacation, especially if you don't mind doing some sales. Or open your own school and hire staff.

If you really want corporate, go out and make it happen...a lot of that is up to you, but it helps to be good looking and personable. The privileged folk usually don't want to be around hired help that clashes with the ambiance. If you're feeling rough around the edges, maybe get a gym membership or go to a spa? You get what I'm saying...

wessidemike

Your post hits very close to home. While I do not have near the time you have, I am on a similar path. I've been out of the flying loop for about 7 years now. I made the bad decision to get out, take my time going to college, and now I'm 31 graduated but with little desire/means to get a desk job. I'm seriously thinking about going back to flying. In fact in about an hour I have a meeting with a local flight school to discuss my options for finishing my CFI. The dilemma is to I take the jump or not. I have enough money saved up (from the last few years messing around as a bartender) to fund the rest of my ratings plus a few tough years at a regional. I wish i didn't have to choose between a more secure future with a boring desk job and a passion which just so happens to be a difficult career in aviation.

flyer4hire

I say got to the regionals. Its good experience.

chrisreedrules

Get your ATP Multi and Single and one other unique rating (ASES or something) and try and become a DPE.

Pilotandrew

Wouldn't we all love that.... lol

JMart

I was in a similar boat a few years back, though I'm younger. I graduated from college with a business degree in 2007. The regionals were still plucking guys with a few hundred hours then, and I had about 1,000 or so with 150 multi. I was working part-time line at the airport, which I had done since '04 (great job during college), and instructing part-time too. I talked to a lot of guys in the airlines and pretty much all discouraged me from doing it. I always wanted to do corporate anyway, but there weren't any opportunities at the time so that's why I was entertaining the idea of the regionals. In the end I decided not to do the airline route, worked line and instructed for another year when I got hired by a local company to fly their Saratoga part 91 corporate. I got the job from getting to know the owner while working at the airport. 2,000 hours and five years later we just bought a new TBM 850. I've got a great quality of life and earn a good salary now with the upgrade.

So I think I was in a somewhat similar position as you. I stuck it out working line and instructing for another year instead of going the airline route and I'm glad I did.

JohnnyG

Same boat here, but anyone who tells you it's easy to get on with a regional doesn't know the climate.

At this point I have made my own jobs in corporate aviation, which offer an astoundingly great QOL, but no advancement. I also fly entry-level aircraft. Corporate is brutally hard to get into today, at any level of flying. For that I'm fortunate, but my area isn't conducive to moving up to bigger and better aircraft. Moving to somewhere like Teterboro or Van Nuys would mean I'd have to start the process all over again.

I have an ATP, and I can't get interviews at regionals. Anyone applying from outside 121 is facing an extremely competitive entry process, even for the worst jobs. Don't listen to people who tell you it's easy. When I do get interviews, there will be 10-20 people there, and they always, ALWAYS hire the guys that have flown 737s for years and will fly an RJ just to have a JOB.

My advice is to get in somewhere you fit in, look to the next step, but prepare for an economy in which this isn't a career but a job and a past time. There's a massive surplus of pilots and it's not changing.

I'm all dressed up for the ball and there's nowhere to go.