CFI Guy

Hi everyone,


I currently work as an independent flight instructor in SoCal. I've been doing this for over 4yrs now and have built up over 4300hrs TT with about 500 multi. I've been trying to find a part 91/135 job or corporate job. It's proven to be tough with no jet time or type ratings. With most of my time in single engine airplanes I feel that any additional hours aren't really helping my career at this point.

The problem (which isn't a bad problem) is that my CFI business has been doing great money wise. It was tough for the first year or so but I've built up my business now to the point where I'm earning a lot more than most regional airline captains. I'm home every night and I can make my own schedule. I'm my own boss and my clients pay me directly versus a school taking a cut.

I like flight instructing more than I thought I would. I've meet some really cool people. I've made friends with people in other circles of life who I would have never encountered if it weren't for instructing. But, I'd be lying if I said that I have no desire to fly larger and more complex aircraft. I'm getting a little tired of the long hours and working my ass off with little time off. I don't get paid vacations. Also, I'm tired of people asking me "what I plan on doing with my life" all the time. It seems like everyone thinks why would you be a CFI when you can wear that cool pilot uniform and fly a shiny jet around.

A couple weeks ago I finally decided to send a couple applications off to the regionals. I've already scheduled two interviews this month. Neither airline is that great but I don't want to get into the debate of whose regional is better because IMHO they are all about the same in terms of pay. I'm sure some offer a better QOL but I don't want to make it career there anyway. My goal would be to collect some turbine time and get a type rating since those are going to be required now along with an ATP to sit in the right seat. I know it's SIC time but I'm not trying to get to that magical 1000hrs TPIC time so I can apply to the majors. I think with my total time now plus some jet time and a type I'll be more marketable to a part 91/135 operator. At least I'll get my ATP and show that I'm trainable.

My real dilemma is how do I afford the salary at a regional? Now most CFI's I know are starving so it might be a bump in pay for some. I was doing some calculations and I'll make less than 25 percent of what I make now. Second year pay is still less than half.

My other issue is my fiancé works here and has a decent job. If I got a job at a regional it would be based somewhere on the east coast. She's from the east coast and both of us have family on that side of the country. Obviously we would have to move but I'd either have to commute or stay with family there until she finds a job. The only way I could even think about taking this job is with her helping financially. Honestly, even with her pay I don't know how we are going to do it given our current debt load, student loans, etc. At least neither of us have a car payment.

My other big fear is what if I don't make it through training ? One of the regionals I'm applying to has had a pretty high wash out rate. Both of these potentional companies have also furloughed every year the past few years.

I've worked really hard to build up my little business and if I leave then its gone. I won't be able to come back to it or start over again. I'm doing ok now but I feel like I'm stuck in a hamster wheel going no where with my career. I thought about opening a flight school but after seeing the numbers it's just not worth it with the legal and financial risk.

I just want to fly for a while and not critique someone all the time. Is that so much to ask ?

detpilot

Hello there. I understand where you're coming from, and even on year 3 pay at a decent regional- I make more hourly in Mooney and Cirrus with private clients. I would say your best bet is to get on with a 135 place near home, even if they are flying Cessna 210s. The fbo time and connections will be valuable, and you'd be able to keep some part time cfi work. Good luck!

PCLCREW

If I were you I would stay with what your doing now. Something will come along. Take it from a 6 year FO in the regionals, it's miserable. After 6 years everyday I'm worrying about money. Now granted I work a regional that is falling apart, but 3 years ago we were doing just fine. My point about that is the regionals fight for each other like cats and dogs for business. So while you think you may be going to a stable one... The next year could change everything.
As far as jet time, ill put it like this this I have applied to about 30 companies from airlines to 91 jobs. I've got about 2 calls back in the last year.
If your making that good of money sit tight and be happy.. Many of us are so drained (financially and mentally) by the regionals that many I know are just quitting flying.

usmc-sgt

My CFI job led to a night currency flight (on the side) in a privately owned 414 which was then upgraded to a Citation 550.

Moral of the story is that word gets out and often times a quality and/or lucky CFI can find themselves into a decent corporate job. Forget the regionals, it really won't make you any more qualified for corporate.

SkyMall

Try Ameriflight. Still a paycut for you, but they do have some SoCal bases. They don't have and jets, but if you want into part 135 having some 135.299 and 135.293 rides will help your resume. Plus, I know you said you're not too concerned about getting TPIC to go to a major, but lots of operators will still want to see it. Ameriflight has mostly turboprops but it still checks the box.

portfo

Best of luck in your decision. Here's my .02c .
First off, if you have that much TT and are training people everyday, how in the world do you not have your ATP yet?? You obviously have access to planes, you must know plenty of examiners, and money is no issue... Get your ATP ASAP. That alone will make you more marketable.
I'm not from the part 91/135 world, but from reading here and talking to friends, networking and "who you know" is everything in that market. I can guarantee you this. You go to a regional, you will never see that side of the world! So if You want to stay 91/135, stay there and keep making connections. Seriously. I'm not trying to be a downer or condescending, but don't go to the 121 world hoping to get a 91/135 job.
Best of luck.

rickair7777

What do you really want to do with your career?

If it's airlines, then you need to go to a regional. I would probably avoid the bottom-feeders with high wash-out rates, you don't need a 121 pink slip.

If it's corporate, you need to network. With 4000+ hours, you should already know some people.

If it's just not happening in 91/135, or the lack of turbine time is clearly causing you to miss opportunities then a year or two at a regional might help, but obviously maintain your 91 network while you're doing that. Be advised that if you think you need TPIC, the wait could be years at a better regional. For fast upgrade, you will need a bottom feeder (with low pay, low QOL, high washout rate, etc). If you think TSIC will do the trick, then a quick trip through a regional might work.

Contrary to what some other folks have said, I do know a G-V pilot who hated the whole idea of the regionals and worked his way up in 91/135. But he says he wished he had just done the regionals up front to get the turbine time...he thinks it would have saved him 8-10 years.

JamesNoBrakes

It really depends on what you want out of aviation. If your goal is to just fly for a major airline, then you don't have as many options and routes. The industry has marginalized the pilot role at the regional level (or it started that way) and if it won't support you monetarily, then there isn't much to debate. It didn't support me, so I found other things to do in aviation that still include flying. You can either "wait it out" to see if they get real desperate, all the while making headway in some other area or form of piloting, or you can throw all your money in and "call". If there is supposed to be some sort of dramatic pilot shortage (which there isn't with regionals being dissolved), waiting it out may not be a bad idea. If it just "jams right back up" with no movement, would you have been truly satisfied to be a 737 FO your entire career with no hope of moving up until maybe when you are 60?

The advice to get your ATP is decent, it opens up more doors. In fact, skip that though and save up some money to do it in a L6 sim and get a type rating at the same time. That won't pay off right here and now, but you can always put on an application that you have a type rating, which does get some notice.

Do you want to go corporate?
Do you want to work aviation insurance? (they fly themselves around)
Do you want to work for fish and game or the forest department? (fun and exciting low-level flying)
Do you want to get into flight testing?
Do you want to get into high-end instructing, either in terms of giving people type ratings or "executive" type customers? (good money, and if you aren't flying, you can probably afford to) Aerobatics?

Do you want to get into the aviation industry in a capacity that makes a difference and furthers aviation and leaves you with enough $$$ to fly your own plane wherever you want?

These are some hard questions. Many of these do not require an "airline" route. Many do require some additional schooling and/or experience you won't get in the airlines. Many of these are great careers and can lead to flying jets (and being Captain) in their respective areas. I wouldn't recommend to jump off into a regional. At 60K I was doing just fine as an instructor To earn that much you got to work your rear end off and make some sacrifices, but it can be worth it in the end, much more than fighting it out at the regional and worrying about how you are going to pay rent, while you are responsible for taking passengers up to 30,000 and back down across the country.

The problem I see is that too many people think the end goal is 777, 747 or A380 internationally. Compared to how many aviation jobs there are out there, there just aren't all that many in this category for pilots. It's not realistic that you can be an outstanding pilot and just "get there" through normal attrition and your merits. It's great to have goals, but being a commercial/ATP pilot does not mean you have to be an airline pilot. Unfortunately, from day one, that is kind of drilled into all of our heads. We never stop to actually consider what flying is and how it is fun. I just got back from making an awesome wheel-landing and I wouldn't trade that right now for anything.

propdriver86

Hey man im pretty much in the same boat as you. With 4500TT and no turbine time. I have put alot of thought into going to a regional, but every time i go to pull the trigger something gas stopped me. Now i am very glad i stayed instructing. I am about to start flying my school's king air which will be all TPIC. I also make good money. If you are set on flying a jet look into some if the smaller fractional companies. I know executive airshare out of KC hires alot lower time guys than you to sit right seat in there Phenoms but you will work alot. Also you could probably find a flight school that does turbine transition training and work your way into there King Air pretty quick with your TT.

rvrabel2002

Sounds like the typical dilemma a lot of CFIs have when contemplating a move up the career ladder. The key here is to ask yourself what will ultimately make you (and your fiancee) happiest, and whether or not you're willing to wait for it.

When you described your current business (good pay, your own boss, etc.), that's a lot better deal than most regional hopefuls currently have. If lifestyle and income are more important, I'd recommend staying with your current gig. Life as a regional pilot can be a miserable existence, particularly during your probationary year. Additionally, with no prior turbine/jet experience, ground school, sim training and IOE will be challenging to say the least.

From what you've written, it looks like a regional gig is just a means to an end for you. With that said, I'd recommend holding onto your current gig and letting networking/word of mouth work in your favor. Your flight times are impressive, so someone is bound to be willing to offer you a gig in the right seat (even if it's just on dead legs initially).

Express your desire to all your industry (and non-industry) contacts. Nothing will probably happen immediately, but it's amazing what a little word of mouth can do. Hang in there a bit longer and I'm sure you'll be able to nail down a 135/91 job with persistence and determination.

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