Jetblue vs Southwest
04-07-2015, 08:17 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: Downward-Facing Dog Pose
Posts: 1,537
Lemme say this again...
In an industry fraught with risk, SWA has turned a profit each and every year for 42 years. That's 4 DECADES, and counting!
Yes, some other companies compare favorably to SWA, but not in terms of longevity and annual profitability. Not even close.
I'm 100% certain that SWA will still be here 30 years from now at the end of my career. Can you say the same with the same level of confidence for any other company?
IMHO, not with any sort of credibility backed up by a 4 decade history.
It's not about popularity or bias, it's about fact.
In an industry fraught with risk, SWA has turned a profit each and every year for 42 years. That's 4 DECADES, and counting!
Yes, some other companies compare favorably to SWA, but not in terms of longevity and annual profitability. Not even close.
I'm 100% certain that SWA will still be here 30 years from now at the end of my career. Can you say the same with the same level of confidence for any other company?
IMHO, not with any sort of credibility backed up by a 4 decade history.
It's not about popularity or bias, it's about fact.
04-07-2015, 08:48 PM
#12
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 89
Originally Posted by SayAlt
I'm 100% certain that SWA will still be here 30 years from now at the end of my career.
You make compelling arguments for why SWA is a stable & profitable company. As already noted, many of those also apply to jetBlue. But to suggest you can see 30 (THIRTY!) years into the future in an industry as volatile as this is absurd.
Good luck to the OP - I know many who work for both, and none are unhappy.
04-07-2015, 08:53 PM
#13
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by SayAlt
Lemme say this again...
In an industry fraught with risk, SWA has turned a profit each and every year for 42 years. That's 4 DECADES, and counting!
Yes, some other companies compare favorably to SWA, but not in terms of longevity and annual profitability. Not even close.
I'm 100% certain that SWA will still be here 30 years from now at the end of my career. Can you say the same with the same level of confidence for any other company?
IMHO, not with any sort of credibility backed up by a 4 decade history.
It's not about popularity or bias, it's about fact.
In an industry fraught with risk, SWA has turned a profit each and every year for 42 years. That's 4 DECADES, and counting!
Yes, some other companies compare favorably to SWA, but not in terms of longevity and annual profitability. Not even close.
I'm 100% certain that SWA will still be here 30 years from now at the end of my career. Can you say the same with the same level of confidence for any other company?
IMHO, not with any sort of credibility backed up by a 4 decade history.
It's not about popularity or bias, it's about fact.
DL had a similar track record as well.
The only thing you're showing here with your recruiter's diatribe is that you have a very poor understanding of aviation history!
04-07-2015, 08:57 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: Downward-Facing Dog Pose
Posts: 1,537
Originally Posted by Max Relax Roll
Sorry, but this is just foolish.
to suggest you can see 30 (THIRTY!) years into the future in an industry as volatile as this is absurd.
to suggest you can see 30 (THIRTY!) years into the future in an industry as volatile as this is absurd.
I'm as certain today as one could reasonably be that SWA will still be around at the end of my career, based upon it's current 4 decade history within the history of an uncertain industry.
04-07-2015, 08:59 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: Downward-Facing Dog Pose
Posts: 1,537
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
your recruiter's diatribe
Clamp - a diatribe is a rant/attack against someone/something
I wasn't attacking JB. I was explaining why I would chose to work for SWA
As Max...and now you...pointed out, I was being foolish for being so strident in my opinion. I hope my correction above helps to suitably soften my opinion and addresses both of your responses.
Last edited by SayAlt; 04-07-2015 at 09:21 PM.
04-07-2015, 09:01 PM
#16
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: A320/321 CA
Posts: 119
Originally Posted by SayAlt
Lemme say this again...
In an industry fraught with risk, SWA has turned a profit each and every year for 42 years. That's 4 DECADES, and counting!
Yes, some other companies compare favorably to SWA, but not in terms of longevity and annual profitability. Not even close.
I'm 100% certain that SWA will still be here 30 years from now at the end of my career. Can you say the same with the same level of confidence for any other company?
IMHO, not with any sort of credibility backed up by a 4 decade history.
It's not about popularity or bias, it's about fact.
In an industry fraught with risk, SWA has turned a profit each and every year for 42 years. That's 4 DECADES, and counting!
Yes, some other companies compare favorably to SWA, but not in terms of longevity and annual profitability. Not even close.
I'm 100% certain that SWA will still be here 30 years from now at the end of my career. Can you say the same with the same level of confidence for any other company?
IMHO, not with any sort of credibility backed up by a 4 decade history.
It's not about popularity or bias, it's about fact.
04-08-2015, 04:10 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 155
You will have more commuting options at SW, more domestic flights, and more bases. SW FO pay is higher, but you will be a line holding captain at JB long before a reserve Captain at SW. JB 190 is 2-4 legs a day, JB 320 1-2 legs a day, SW 4-6 legs a day. So if you want to have worse seniority, make less money, and fly 5-6 legs a day, then go to SW. Personally just giving up the seniority wouldn't be worth it to me, being able to hold captain just isn't about being a captain, it's the choice to be a senior FO or a junior captain. You won't see that at SW for 10-15 years. But hey they made money for 40 years. I guess that justifies giving up seniority which is the only thing that = QOL.
04-08-2015, 05:56 AM
#19
Furloughed Again?!
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Boeing 737
Posts: 4,796
Having worked for both jetBlue and SW I have to say that I agree with WhiteHammer - but with a few caveats. Southwest has a mature contract and as such enjoys several quality fo life, scope, and job security provisions that significantly outpace anything jetBlue is likely to get in its first contract.
Lets take scope for example. Southwest's is ironclad. The company is not permitted to outsource any flying. They may not code share with any entity without the pilot group agreeing. None. JetBlue on the other hand codeshares with dozens of entities -- which is terrific feed for their business, but could be problematic for the pilots. A codeshare with Azul, for example, could preclude jetBlue from buying the A330 and expanding into South America on its own.
Job security: SW has some of the best commuter language in the business. All you need is to make an attempt at one online, or two offline flights and you are covered. No questions asked.
Quality of Life: Reserves at SW enjoy a minimum of 15 days off per month or 16 on a long month. Since SW staffs reserves at 8-10% (vs ~ 20% at jetBlue) he would be likely to be off reserve sooner. Once off reserve at SW he can give away any trips in his domicile and attempt to pick up flying from Denver. SW pilots can pick up flying from other pilots in any domicile. Southwest does line-bidding, jB is PBS. In line bidding you can pretty easily create 3 weeks of vacation out of one awarded vacation week (trips that touch vacation drop).
That isn't accurate. I'm about as junior as they come and I have a 3 day trip in a few weeks with 2 legs each day. My trip this week has 4 legs the first day, but 2 legs each on day 2 and 3. I would say that 75% of the trips average 3 legs per day with 4 or 5 legs a day making about another 24% and only a handful of trips have more than 5 legs per day.
Aircraft: No way around it here. The 737 is an antique. Even the freshest -800 to come off the assembly line is at least two generations behind the E190 and the Airbus in technology. It doesn't have EICAS, it doesn't have automatic bus switching, and the VNAV must have been manufactured by ATARI in the 1980s. So if you want the latest gee-whiz technology, you won't find that at SW either.
(Even the 737-Max will, by all accounts, still have the goofy overhead panel and the RECALL button instead of EICAS... wild)
Commute:I too live in the central part of the country and had a tough two-leg commute to Boston at jetBlue. I loved the company, was very proud of the product jetBlue provided for its customers, and the people were first rate. If I were young and single I would've packed a bag and moved to BOS and would still be there today. Unfortunately, life happens. That two-leg commute was costing me an extra day off per week. I would drop my son off at school on my last day off, go to the airport and fly to Chicago, Dallas, or Charlotte and then hop on a connection to BOS from there. I would typically get to BOS around 5 or 6pm eastern, and go to my crashpad in East Boston. I killed a whole day commuting andy had 12 days off per month to begin with!
If you're commuting to New York or Boston from Denver it might be doable (but exhausting) on redeyes. From OKC, you'll be stuck with a two leg all day commute just like I was.
Reserve Life:On reserve at jetBlue I was barely used. In fact, in my first 3 months on line there I had barely cleared 75 hours in the airplane. It was not unusual to commute to BOS, sit around for 4 to 6 days and then commute home having never flown a thing. Great for being a tourist in Beantown, (or if I lived there, how awesome would that have been?!) but not fantastic for a guy away from his family. At SW since there are so few reserves, they are used almost every day. In 8 months on reserve there were only 2 days that I wasn't used and ended up buying a hotel room.
For better or for worse, if he is living in DEN or OKC there are a variety of domiciles at SW that would improve his quality of life and shorten his commute.
What does JB do better? All of that said. There are a LOT of things that jB does better. They pay for uniforms. SW does not. They pay for parking at either your domicile, your commuter city, or they give you a rail pass in your domicile. SW doesn't do any of those things. JB has long call reserve. SW does not. JB will sometimes pre-release or release a reserve early on the last day. SW never will. If staffing is adequate at JB you can drop your trip. At SW you can not.
The customers absolutely loved JB and I was proud to work there, even if it was only for a short time. I hope that as they grow they will challenge my company to improve our onboard product and provide that level of service to our customers.
Upgrade: Both jB and SW have substantial room to grow internationally if they choose to. Either way an upgrade at jB is likely to occur a decade before an upgrade at SW. So if that is the most important metric in your calculus, then your answer is pretty simple. For me, the commute and time at home was more important than an upgrade. Maybe i'll regret that later. I hope not.
If you lived near Boston or New York I'd say go to jetBlue and don't look back. If your intent is to remain in the midwest, I'd say at least go to the interview at SW and see what you think. No decision to make until they offer a class date.
They're both great companies but in different ways and trust me, thousands of pilots wish they had the decision to make that you do. I would say nomatter which you choose you will have a fine career! Good luck!
Lets take scope for example. Southwest's is ironclad. The company is not permitted to outsource any flying. They may not code share with any entity without the pilot group agreeing. None. JetBlue on the other hand codeshares with dozens of entities -- which is terrific feed for their business, but could be problematic for the pilots. A codeshare with Azul, for example, could preclude jetBlue from buying the A330 and expanding into South America on its own.
Job security: SW has some of the best commuter language in the business. All you need is to make an attempt at one online, or two offline flights and you are covered. No questions asked.
Quality of Life: Reserves at SW enjoy a minimum of 15 days off per month or 16 on a long month. Since SW staffs reserves at 8-10% (vs ~ 20% at jetBlue) he would be likely to be off reserve sooner. Once off reserve at SW he can give away any trips in his domicile and attempt to pick up flying from Denver. SW pilots can pick up flying from other pilots in any domicile. Southwest does line-bidding, jB is PBS. In line bidding you can pretty easily create 3 weeks of vacation out of one awarded vacation week (trips that touch vacation drop).
Originally Posted by WhiteHammer
JB 190 is 2-4 legs a day, JB 320 1-2 legs a day, SW 4-6 legs a day. So if you want to have worse seniority, make less money, and fly 5-6 legs a day, then go to SW.
Aircraft: No way around it here. The 737 is an antique. Even the freshest -800 to come off the assembly line is at least two generations behind the E190 and the Airbus in technology. It doesn't have EICAS, it doesn't have automatic bus switching, and the VNAV must have been manufactured by ATARI in the 1980s. So if you want the latest gee-whiz technology, you won't find that at SW either.
(Even the 737-Max will, by all accounts, still have the goofy overhead panel and the RECALL button instead of EICAS... wild)
Commute:I too live in the central part of the country and had a tough two-leg commute to Boston at jetBlue. I loved the company, was very proud of the product jetBlue provided for its customers, and the people were first rate. If I were young and single I would've packed a bag and moved to BOS and would still be there today. Unfortunately, life happens. That two-leg commute was costing me an extra day off per week. I would drop my son off at school on my last day off, go to the airport and fly to Chicago, Dallas, or Charlotte and then hop on a connection to BOS from there. I would typically get to BOS around 5 or 6pm eastern, and go to my crashpad in East Boston. I killed a whole day commuting andy had 12 days off per month to begin with!
If you're commuting to New York or Boston from Denver it might be doable (but exhausting) on redeyes. From OKC, you'll be stuck with a two leg all day commute just like I was.
Reserve Life:On reserve at jetBlue I was barely used. In fact, in my first 3 months on line there I had barely cleared 75 hours in the airplane. It was not unusual to commute to BOS, sit around for 4 to 6 days and then commute home having never flown a thing. Great for being a tourist in Beantown, (or if I lived there, how awesome would that have been?!) but not fantastic for a guy away from his family. At SW since there are so few reserves, they are used almost every day. In 8 months on reserve there were only 2 days that I wasn't used and ended up buying a hotel room.
For better or for worse, if he is living in DEN or OKC there are a variety of domiciles at SW that would improve his quality of life and shorten his commute.
What does JB do better? All of that said. There are a LOT of things that jB does better. They pay for uniforms. SW does not. They pay for parking at either your domicile, your commuter city, or they give you a rail pass in your domicile. SW doesn't do any of those things. JB has long call reserve. SW does not. JB will sometimes pre-release or release a reserve early on the last day. SW never will. If staffing is adequate at JB you can drop your trip. At SW you can not.
The customers absolutely loved JB and I was proud to work there, even if it was only for a short time. I hope that as they grow they will challenge my company to improve our onboard product and provide that level of service to our customers.
Upgrade: Both jB and SW have substantial room to grow internationally if they choose to. Either way an upgrade at jB is likely to occur a decade before an upgrade at SW. So if that is the most important metric in your calculus, then your answer is pretty simple. For me, the commute and time at home was more important than an upgrade. Maybe i'll regret that later. I hope not.
If you lived near Boston or New York I'd say go to jetBlue and don't look back. If your intent is to remain in the midwest, I'd say at least go to the interview at SW and see what you think. No decision to make until they offer a class date.
They're both great companies but in different ways and trust me, thousands of pilots wish they had the decision to make that you do. I would say nomatter which you choose you will have a fine career! Good luck!
Last edited by ZapBrannigan; 04-08-2015 at 06:09 AM.
04-08-2015, 06:55 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Airplane
Posts: 2,385
Great write up Zap, great! I have no desire to go to SWA or JB, but on a lazy morning, reading the different forums, I enjoyed reading the differences between both.
Honestly, to the poster you really can't go wrong with ANY airline right now, maybe with the exception of one.
BTW, commuting sucks! I commuted two legs from LIT, ate up a day .5 of every four day break. Now, my commute takes me along Beach Blvd, right along the ocean and plenty of bikinis in sunny weather. QOL, that's what I'm getting at. You can always make more money, you can NEVER make more time.
Honestly, to the poster you really can't go wrong with ANY airline right now, maybe with the exception of one.
BTW, commuting sucks! I commuted two legs from LIT, ate up a day .5 of every four day break. Now, my commute takes me along Beach Blvd, right along the ocean and plenty of bikinis in sunny weather. QOL, that's what I'm getting at. You can always make more money, you can NEVER make more time.
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