Envoy or SkyWest on the crj at ORD
 

I'm looking at both of these airlines since I live near ORD. Anybody have some thoughts on quality of life, reserve times, line structure, etc in the crj at O'Hare with both Envoy and SkyWest? If anyone is willing to email me a bid packet to I could have a first hand look at how the lines are, where the overnights are on the crj, etc, that would be great and helpful. Thanks, I have a wife and 2 little ones so QOL is huge for us. Thanks in advance.

Isn't Envoy becoming all E-Jets? Thought the CRJs were going to PSA...

Looks like the crj is sticking around for a while, I've been told.

Our management (and AAG) has told us that the 700s will resume transfer in March/April 2017 at whatever rate we can staff them. Which at this point I think we will be able to at around 2/month, perhaps 3. Unless they decide to exercise options for more 900s before transferring any remaining 700s. Which is also totally possible.

It appears the 700s will slowly goto PSA in 2017-2018. Envoy will have over 100 ejets over the next few years, and close to 100 145s until 2022-2024ish.

You should pick what is best for you long term. Both are in good positions for long term sustainability. Envoy does appear to be contracting some in ord.

I'd highly recommend taking an airline with flow. I have a few friends who are captains at skywest and can't get a call from the majors (why I have no idea) and can't afford going to a lcc. Tifiw

There is a lot of things to take into consideration when choosing a regional. But if quality of life is big for you, you should probably go with Skywest.

Right now, QOL at Envoy is terrible, it's sustainable if you live on base (which is your case) but not great.. More and more people bid reserve because the lines are so bad.. And reserve is not good either. They have awful reserve rules.

I'm not saying it will never change, but the facts right now are what I just said.

On the bright side, Envoy has a flow, and you'd make more money than at Skywest..

Good luck!

Because flows have always worked so well.....:rolleyes:

Better than skywests flow, which was the point.

Is the flow worth dealing with envoy's shenanigans for years? Why can't they just fix the QOL issues?

It's working right now. AAG wants MORE pilots to come from the flow. What exactly gives you any indication it would not work?

More than likely you are just spouting nonsense you heard on here, same as all the other garbage advice advice that many many many pilots have proven to be incorrect, such as "don't chase an upgrade". By all means though: Be an FO for 8 years and don't have a flow in your back pocket incase no one calls you.

Most of the "institutional" advice seen on here is either badly outdated or was never really correct in the first place and was given by jaded, bitter pilots that were unfortunate victims of timing.

Talk about bad information coming straight from your mouth! Where would he be an 8 year FO not by choice?

That's a relative question. In my case it is, because of my hire date. But guys hired a year after me have a totally different experience.

Times have changed.

xjt/asa.....

What's the title of this thread?

It was an example chief. I wasn't giving advice. I was giving an example of bad advice recently given on this site like it was bible.

Like what? The flow not always working? He wasn't wrong. The flow is and always has been a big carrot to get people in the door and then to stay. If you're choosing an airline based on flow then envoy is your best bet! Certainly not PSA....

I don't remember telling the OP to go to PSA.

The flow is working. To insinuate otherwise is misleading. Making a snarky comment about the flow not working is ignorance akin to "Uphill both ways in 2 feet of snow". It is outdated and untrue.

The flow is currently working. Didn't say it wasn't. But it's always been a carrot... guys flowing at eagle have waited 15-17 years. Will guys have to wait that long this time? Probably not, but there's more to chosing an airline than the flow....

Base and upgrade are the same between the two.

Envoy wins on pay, unless you get stuck for like 15 years. Why not have a flow to fall back on? You have turned this into a totally different discussion now. Maybe you should be a politician instead of a pilot?

Should I hurry and jump in to the presidential race?!

Yeah, 12 years to flow won't help any new-hire. One is likely to be hired by AA off the street before their number is drawn lol.

To the OP having worked at both airlines I can tell you the difference in management styles and just overall atmosphere is night and day! If you have specific questions send me a PM.

They can, they just don't care to. Now quit whining and back to work! (on your off day)

That's what I don't understand! They lost a lot of guys because of it at a time when they should have been trying to retain them...
There are certain scheduling managers and VP's there that have to go before anything will actually improve!

Well. Seeing most SkyWest CA leave quick to Delta and even just got MD 88 captain awarded in under 1 year... seems to be better then the 14 years to AA flow right now..

I'm not sure where you are coming from. Historically, flows have been nothing but a hiring gimmick. I would not base my decision on where to hang my regional hat based on empty promises.

What we're trying to say is no, a flow is not guaranteed. However, it is working and it is nice to have in your back pocket. It's better than not having it at all. As far as QOL we all know Envoy is not perfect, however, it is far from what people post here. Yes, there's disgruntled people, especially very senior people. I talk to my friends at TSA, Skywest, Expressjet, etc and they all complain about the same. Pick your poison. Might as well do it with more pay and flow.

Umm no! Not even close... the issues at envoy are far worse than the "issues" at Skywest! But if all that matters are the bonuses then by all means go!

We just opened lga and Miami with another large vacancy is in the works.

American airlines changed the entire flight file and network. They literally added a mid day flights to places like Waterloo Iowa to help the schedules. Unfortunately that takes a few months to implement. January is when it hits.

The damage of Scott Kirby is massive and its being addressed. First was cash, and honesty alot of it . Now bases and schedules. The arbitrator will set the tone where we go with rsv.

Trustme I've lived the nightmare here. But the steps are being taken. It will take a few months. The schedules are being addressed and fixed. In a few months mesa or someone eelse willbe posting how bad their flying from aa is. Which again is why saying oh this regional sucks because xxxx isn't a good reason to pick one. It changes and fast.

Pick a regional in the place you lliveand if more than one pick one with a good reputation and my opinion a flow. I think off the street hiring is drying up very fast, and flows will continue to be the norm along with pref interviews.

I have a squeaky clean record, a dad at united an uncle at Delta and more job fairs and lors than I know what to do with. Im god honest assuming ill flow at this point. I have friends who have been told by main they are too qualified and the computer will neverppickthem. My worst nightmare is 35 more years at ANY regional or even LCC. I'm very happy for the flow.

My friends who are 15 year captains at skywest do like skywest but they also are now very concerned they will spend the next twenty years there till they retire.

We currently have about 40 captans leaving every month to various majors. If your friends aren't getting hired then it's just a matter of time ( unless they're unhirable)....
The conversations we have about them not getting the call usually end up revealing that they haven't (refuse to) attended any job fairs, don't meet some requirements (degree), haven't updated their apps....

Not my buddy Jeff..... He can't figure out why. Best we can figure out is he is over qualified.Ive sat and with my ears heard a major airlines recruiter say they don't target age but the computer isset to disqualify anyone over about 11000 hours. I know alot of people in this industry and only a select few are getting calls.

The pref interviews have even put the highly connected on the back burner for United.

In a short period of time PSA will be flowing 2014 hires. That's pretty incredible.

Sounds like 'hour-ism'!!

I'm sure you don't pay as much attention as those of us at the WOs, but there are some important factors to consider...

1) If you don't work for an AA WO, you can certainly apply to AA as an off the street hire. However, your chances are very slim that you will get hired because only 25-30% of new hires at AA are coming from off the street, and most of those are military pilots. That leaves UA and DA. Delta traditionally has hired about 50% of its pilots from the military. So maybe your odds aren't so good there (unless you go work for Endeavor, which is probably your best shot. And even they only have a 40-50% pass rate for their interview with Delta). That leaves UA, who also hires a large percentage of military pilots. However you can go work for an AA WO, have the exact same odds as every other non-WO pilot applying at DA and UA except for one thing: You have a guaranteed flow in your back pocket, "just in case".

2) AA has said that they are moving non-WO flying back to their WOs. That means pilots flying for other regionals may not have a job within a couple years. They are going to continue raising pay and improving the flow agreements as needed to attract pilots.

...There is a lot of speculation about what AA may do to attract pilots in the next couple years. I've heard everything from the well thought out and plausible (DoH), to the absurd (staple). Either way, things will continue to improve and the WOs will only further outpace the rest of the industry in terms of compensation and benefits as the pilot shortage deepens.

One flaw in point number 2
Skywest just signed a long term agreement with AA to place a bunch of our Crj 700's in PHX and ORD so.....

I never said SkyWest wouldn't have a future flying for AA. Just that the future will be different than that of Envoy, PSA, and Piedmont.

SkyWest is being positioned to do the flying that PSA was at one point slated to do out of ORD. And AA is likely positioning you to do Mesa flying out of PHX. I wouldn't even be surprised if some of Mesa's 900s end up at SkyWest. The 700s that AAG is transferring from Envoy to PSA are likely either going to take over Republic flying in DCA, or they will be dispersed throughout our bases and our 200s will end up in DCA doing Whiskey's flying out of there.

I don't like this guy personally but hes right.

Pick your poison, I'm still happy I picked eagle.

Man you sure know a lot about AA's business plans!! Do you sit in on planning meetings with the other executives!
Once upon a time 'eagle' was slated to get around 90 Crj 900's! Remember that?