CTRCommander

Probably the most well organized writing I've seen on here in a while.

By looking at corporate culture of Amazon I'd say they plan on sticking with the contractor route. The city which I reside, currently one of the largest markets, is full of Amazon Flex drivers. In fact after reading more about amazon they are pretty big on subs. No benefits and no payroll taxes either. When your new $1500.00 widget is delivered in an old dodge K-car you realize the extent they go to.

The Amazon ramp should be one union with one Heck of a scope clause. Unfortunately, history is short lived in people's minds over this matter and it draws intense debate.




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Jason605

All interesting thoughts and definitely going to be fun to watch. I didn't want to hijack this thread but when I read where some of the talk was heading, I just wanted to throw one more idea out there.

So far a lot of people, including myself, have said that they think Amazon will follow in DHL's footsteps by having multiple carriers fly for them. By doing such they can whipsaw and keep costs down, is what keeps coming up.

I was just recently thinking of this more and started to wonder, how does not owning the airline keep costs down? These companies, ATSG and Atlas do not lose money. They make money off of DHL and Amazon. A good amount as a matter of fact. Seems to me that by contracting out the work, it's more likely that Amazon is leaving some money on the table that could be in their pocket.

If free shipping to the Amazon customer is the ultimate goal, I'm starting to think that they would have to own and operate their own iron. Who knows... Time will tell.

Back to the UPS topic. Carry on.��

threeighteen

In the very short term it might be "cheaper" for Amazon to have the airline in house. Except it still wouldn't be, because the start-up costs are significant.

The long term time window is where the real savings are. They can keep moving the flying around from the lowest bidder to the next lowest bidder and so on. They don't have to worry about their pilots, rampers, dispatchers, whatever, unionizing, going on strike, and crippling the company or digging too deep into their margin. They'll just move along to the next lowest bidder. There's a never ending line of pilots willing to go fly a 757/767 for ATI at $50k/year, and if ATI gets replaced, they'll just get in line to work at the next company.

flyguy23

That's the question regional pilots have been asking for decades. From the outside it would appear to be more expensive to contract out. Yet every legacy continues to do it and fight for bigger planes for regionals.

Almost There

Brown figured this out in the late '80s.

Jason605

If you purchase an already operating airline, what start up costs are you referring to?

"They can keep moving the flying around from the lowest bidder to the next lowest bidder and so on."

Except that the lowest bidder is still making money. Money that Amazon leaves on table by contracting.

"They don't have to worry about their pilots, rampers, dispatchers, whatever, unionizing, going on strike, and crippling the company or digging too deep into their margin"

No, you still have to worry about that. Contractor or not.

"They'll just move along to the next lowest bidder. There's a never ending line of pilots willing to go fly a 757/767 for ATI at $50k/year, and if ATI gets replaced, they'll just get in line to work at the next company."

Not going to be that easy to just move flying all over the place. There may be guys willing to fly for cheap. Can't argue that, but like I said if they are serious, I believe in my humble opinion that they will want complete control and absolute savings. We shall see.

Jason605

I agree. As the months go on, more will come to light.

Flatbiller

I know the vast majority of ABX and ATI pilots hope and pray that Amazon will purchase them to become the in-house Amazon Prime Air.

A simple 5 minute Google search will show you what it's really like to be an actual employee of Amazon. Be careful what you wish for...

Jason605

I agree that some do want that. Myself and a few others would actually be happy with contracting for both.

I feel there is more security with DHL. They've been around a long time and don't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon. I personally think it would be better for us pilots doing it that way. Not to mention the charters that we do for others as well.

I don't have an ego to feed that makes me want to work for a big name company. Just pay me well and leave me alone and I'll be happy.

Flatbiller

I see your point, but you will probably never have as much job security as a contractor as you would working for a company that carries it's own product.