blastboy

I have a few questions about flying the whales long haul for outfits like Kalitta, EIA, etc...Please, only serious answers this time.

First, what is the typical work schedule like? (flight hours, layovers, time off, etc.)

Second: why don't 191 outfits require a relief crew?

Third: Do most of the 191 outfits intend on keeping aircraft with flight engineers? (i hope so)

The reason I am so attracted to flying freight is because they seem to be the only ones keeping the good old 747's. Plus they have been hanging on to the flight engineers. Nothing would tickle my inards more than to fly a 747-100/200 around the globe....Even the -300 would be more than dandy! I love the way those JT9's growl at max power and the look and feel of the old steam gauge flightdeck. Good old INS too. (if they still use it) It puts a smile on my face when I think about the possibility of flying one of these fantastic birds. I appreciate the insight guys!

cac737

It sounds like you are quite green to flying or looking to get into it. I would suggest a couple of years in other planes/jobs just simply because it would better prepare you for what you will encounter with the B747.
Typical schedules, flight times, layovers?......let's just say that on the short end you could fly empty on a 30min repositioning flight all the way to flying 14+hrs crossing multiple time zones. rest periods are best looked at in terms of "hours" and not 2 days or a day and a half etc....
This may sound pretty cool and exciting flying a B747, and it is! HOWEVER, i would strongly caution you to really think about what it means to fly that long. You carcadian rythm is all out of whack, you deal with Z time only (local time would just confuse you) and you must be at your best flying an approach to minimums in a foreign country after 11hours of flying......trust me easier said than done. Now if your heart is really into it and you truly love flying, then it can be tremendously rewarding to do this....however, if you are looking for the prestige of flying a B747, or being a world wide traveler or for high pay......dont even bother.

so to answer your question, it can be a simple 2-3 day (local) trip from ANC-ORD-JFK. to a 25ish day jaunt around the world. Remember this may leave you with 6 calendar days off...by which time if you are junior, then you may very well be facing another 14-18 days back on the road if you land a schedule on the front end of the next month......try that month after month and you will see that if you truly dont love it........youll find yourself really questioning just how "cool" it may really be. btw, got a gf/wife/children? that really makes things interesting.

what is a 191 outfit? I think you may be referring to a 121 (airline) supplemental outfit with a 3man crew (2 pilots +FE). simply put, 2 man crews are limited to 8hours of flying....put in another relief pilot(s) and you can go longer. 3 man crews can fly up to 12 hours and be on duty for an unlimited time (most places have company imposed limits like 18 hours of duty. put in another pilot and you can go longer.

as much as i like FE's (i used to be one) they are unfortunately not going to be around longer than say 10 years at most.....youll see airlines go to -400's or get 2 man planes because they are more economical.


in short, the B747 is an incredible machine. it really is. Most places wont hire you unless you are "experienced" just simply due to the fact of what is involved with flying one.
I would suggest getting your feet wet and if the long hours on the back side of the clock flying something coast to coast either with multiple hops or non-stop doesnt bother you.....then you might be a good fit for a B747.

hope this gives you some points of thought for your consideration.

blastboy

Thanks for the help. Ironically, I was up until 3am last night going over some clients' paper work. After reading your post, I can't imagine having a few hour layover after a 12 hour drive in the whale; the way I feel this morning, I wouldn't want to fly a 747 under this condition. I guess I'm not cutout for the freight thing but I could change my mind. Yeah, I'm kinda green on the "191" (121) stuff. I'm curious, How do you deal with the time zone changes? I don't even drive when I return from a country 14 times zones away. Too tired. LOL!

cac737

I think you miss-understood my "hours" explanation! Im not saying that after 12 hours of flying, you get like 3-4 hours, but instead get anywhere from 22-28ish or whatever hours. because you travel over many time zones and you may cross the international date line over the pacific, trying to keep relevance over days or local time can really confuse you, so you just keep track of Z time and leave it at that.
Personally i try and not think too much about time zones and eat when im hungry and sleep when im sleepy generally speaking.
Like i said, try out some other type of flying first and if after some time you arent bothered too much by long delays on the back end of the clock or dont mind going to work when its dark and going to sleep when its light out then this or any job might work for you.

Like any career field.....personally for me.....you must love what you do or at least really like it.......no matter how much $$$ you can make, its not worth it over the years if you are miserable doing it.

hope this helps.

blastboy

Oh, oops! LOL! I misunderstood that. Goes to show how dislexic I can get after only 4 hours of sleep. I love to fly at night and sometimes I take out the cessna at 1am and fly several IFR legs till dawn, with a safety pilot of course. I tell ya, I have a lot of respect for those single man cargo ops b/c I don't think I could do it more than two days in a row. Hard stuff! But a 22-28ish layover isn't too bad. But I'll start small and see what happens. cac737, thanks a bunch for the insight! Much appreciated!

fedupbusdriver

A 24hr layover sounds good on paper, until you actually do it.

Lets say that you get up to fly a 12 hr flight. Show up 1.5 hrs after getting up. T/O 1.5 hrs later, fly for twelve hrs, shut down, wait on your ride to the hotel, get checked in, and are finally in your room 1 hr after landing. You have now been up 16 hrs. 2 hrs to eat, and get to sleep. That is an 18 hr day. You are now three hrs into your 24 hr layover when you get to sleep. Sleep 8 hrs, (yeah right), get up and look at the clock and you now have 13 hrs untill you have to be standing in ops for the next leg (leg two of a 12 day trip). So you leave the hotel, work out, eat lunch (or dinner depending on the time of day) and try to get sleepy enough to get a nap. Sleep maybe 2 hrs, sh!t, shave and bath, and before you know it you are standing in the hotel lobby wishing that this next 15 hrs were over so you can crawl back into bed.

Sound like fun?

JPilot77

I don't have half the experience as some of the guys that commented to you, I'm still relatively new and low time but don't let a plane attract you to a job. I did and boy it was a big mistake. I used to watch these convairs flying and was dying to fly one because of how big they were and how much noise they made etc. Well I finally got my shot and it wore off pretty quick, yeah it was a fun plane to fly and everyone was cool to fly with but after pushing pallets through them when it's -10F then flying somewhere and unloading them on another ramp when its 100F in the same day gets old very quick. Not to mention a crappy call out, like those other guys suggested I would get your feet wet elsewhere and decide if the job is really for you, not just becuase a plane looks cool.

Tuck

It's tough but it's not quite as bad as some of the posts above put it. I was on the MD11 out of ANC for FX for quite a while. Rarely did we do 12 hour legs but 8-11 hour legs were common. There is a relief pilot on board which means that you're given 2-3 hours off to rest in the back - you may not be able to sleep but it's definitely rest out of the cockpit. If this is a day flight (and most of the flights out of ANC are) then the entire sequence is pretty good. So now you're back in the cockpit, landing in a foreign country after being up for maybe 10 hours or resting a bit in between. It's not that bad. I'm not sure about waiting for rides at your destination. So far I've never waited more than 5 minutes for a ride internationally - domestically you're treated like garbage but most int'l locations are pretty good. And then an 18 hour layover would be short - more are more towards the 24-48 hour layover range - check out our bidpacks if you don't believe me. Your body clock will be screwed up but as one guy said, sleep when you're tired, eat when you're hungry, and workout in between. I think it's far easier flying long haul international than short haul hub turns domestically.
- long layovers
- much nicer hotels
- much better treated by the ramp/hotels
- usually 1-2 legs max per day

fedupbusdriver

I was just illustrating that the 24 hr layover id the worst on your body. 18 hrs, or 36 hrs seem to work much better.

MD11Fr8Dog

Hmm, and all this time I thought it was sleep till you're hungry and eat till you're tired!