flyguy37

This is just one person's opinion...…

A fair amount of the opinions on this board come from captains who have been around a while and with their seniority, the decent contract, and the recent growth are sitting pretty and have no plans to go anywhere except maybe FDX/UPS. I wouldn't go anywhere either.

The recent upgrades have gone what seems like very junior, under two years. K4 has been hiring approximately 16 pilots every 3 weeks for the past 6 months or so. Over 180 pilots have been hired in the last year in a company that has a little over 500 pilots total. K4 just got number 23 B747 out of a suggested 25 total and maybe a few more 767s coming and a possible 777 program in the future. The 747-400 won't be around forever and K4 seems to know that by beginning the process of bringing the 777 online but who knows how much of it would be organic growth or just replacements

I say all that to suggest that the hiring wave may have been missed. When the dust settles K4 may have 600-700 pilots and anyone hired today would be in the bottom 5th of all that. K4 doesn't need a lot of captains with the current crewing ratios and there is little attrition from the top with only 5-10 retirements a year for the next decade. We all know anything can happen and K4 could take over the world or they could furlough tomorrow.

No non-rev commuting is nice but you still commute. So your last day off is given up commuting especially if you live somewhere remote and/or you don't want to show up exhausted for your 10 hour flight after being awake on an airline all day (first day commute is not duty time)


The contract certainly needs some improvements in work rules and retirement and it can happen in the next round but under a dollar for dollar comparison it is hard for a K4 new hire to not seriously consider a Legacy carrier. You will make more money in the long term and you can one day not work 16+days a month on reserve.


For the non money items not having to jumpseat to work is nice and its value varies based on where you live etc. The company is ok to work with but they have grown a lot in a short time and the growing pains are real especially in the scheduling and IT department and several other areas too. You will never fly your line so you are basically on reserve for 16 days and not at home. If you want to actually fly your awarded line just go somewhere else. I like the longer stints away and at home but every family is different. The guys and gals you work with are cool and you will see some neat places but honestly you will go to the same 10 airports 90 percent of the time. As a new guy after IOE you will never fly the plane so if you are one of those guys who needs to feel the yoke in your palm look elsewhere.

I say all that to say there is no right answer. We all are just trying to juggle money versus happiness. I just wanted to provide a perspective that is more inline with what you would experience if hired today. I think if you are on the fence and you heard about 16 month upgrades you could be making the wrong choice if you look at the overall picture. If you are coming out of the military or the 135 world I would go to a regional (preferably with a flow through) as a DEC, get an LCA/ training position and hit the legacies from that angle.

Puck Hawg

Thanks for all the intel! I’m at a regional with a CPP, although the first attempt didn’t go as planned. My commute is decent, but I just look at the bid packet for next month and see 10 commutes, and cringe. I love where I live, though, so I’m not moving. My next shot at the Legacy will be Q2 next year, so I’m going to hang on until then.

I don’t want to fly pax, though, and so hopefully said Legacy will help me get to FedEx.

Palmtree Pilot

WHAT? Why? Please elaborate.

Riverside

Cause this isn't the regionals where you can get in 2 landings a day. I was IRP for a month because of a new hire. Guess how many landings I got? Zero.

Palmtree Pilot

Yeah, that's no mystery that long haul Int'l pilots don't typically get 2 landings a day. But that doesn't answer my question on the statement of "you'll NEVER fly the airplane after IOE." If you're not stuck with a check airman for the month, and flying 70-85 hours a month, why wouldn't you get a couple sectors to fly and landings?

lionflyer

You can get 2-3 landings a month on average. If you’re IRP paired with a check airman giving IOE to another student, you will not get any TO or landings. I don’t think that’s been the case with new guys.

flyguy37

We fly with 3 or 4 pilots 95 percent of the time. Depending on your line you may fly less than 10 legs over your 16 day trip. The captain gets first dibs on landings and understandably so and I tend to change captains every few flights. We have so many guys on IOE so if you are with a check airman you will be IRP (relief pilot) every flight as the student in training gets every landing pretty much. So I misspoke when I said you will never fly. You just won't touch the controls 90% percent of the time That being said I just did 3 legs basic crew and the captain gave me every landing, maybe out of kindness or maybe out of laziness. Hard to tell.....

flyguy37

I was real excited about not dealing with pax and airline terminals etc too. Unfortunately you will still airline a lot, albeit as a passenger, which has its plusses and minuses. Also at most of the foreign airports we operate at you get dropped off and picked up right at the passenger terminal. You will go through the same security and deal with the same terminals full of pesky paxs and all that brings. You think the TSA is quacky…… Is it as bad as regionals??...maybe not but there will always be airports to deal with as they are the most suitable place to operate airplanes

Locke

I don’t know about most. Some. It’s especially annoying in Turkey where everyone goes in the “Diplomatic/Crew” entrance. Brussels is by far my favorite to arrive at. Talk to no one and just walk into the country.

Palmtree Pilot

Roger that, thanks for the clarification. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't for some other reason. The IOE thing is pretty understandable due to the hiring going on. Hell, at World, we used to add the guy on IOE to the 3 man crew and the 2 FO's would take turns doing nothing.

Funny, sometimes I do 6-8 landings a month as we are allowed to fly up 10 hours with a 2 man crew in Japan universe and have a lot of turnaround and 2 leg trips out of NRT.

Thanks again!