Again I get all of that. But my question remains, why picket the customer? Don’t get me wrong, there is a time and place to picket your own employer and to join in solidarity. However amazon is the customer. If a company (say atlas) has pilots picketing amazon that definitely is sending a message. Not that I have a dog in that fight, but pilots picketing amazon is sending a strong go eff yourself message. So amazon reacts. And naturally management says to investors and the media “see? It’s these no good pesky complaining pilots. They are the problem!” In all fairness Amazon has publicly stated that management is the problem too.

Lastly, though Amazon expects to be scrutinized, they do not want to be criticized. Worse yet, they don’t want their flights to go late or not at all. That’s what is gonna get their attention the fastest! And boy has it!! So yes management has taken a kick in the balls but the pilot group has as well. Why? Because it will me a miracle if Amazon reverses direction and puts planes back into the hands of AAWW. That’s less opportunities for new hires and upgrades.

Somebody was clearly confused on the difference between the two.

The idea behind informational picketing is to make customers (and the shareholders of those customers, in the case of picketing shareholder meetings) aware of labor issues in the hope that those customers will put pressure on the airlines to resolve those issues post haste.

I have yet to see any evidence that it's effective.

Wow...where do I start...

First of all...thanks No Land 3 and Neverhome...you got my point.

This thread was never about the topic it has increasingly become about. It was about...hmmm....”Life at ATI”, not Life at ABX or the difference between picketing and striking! For crying out loud...this thread was started by someone who wanted to pass along his experience where he works.

Oops...oh...that’s right....the OP was just a manager or recruiter from ATI...or was it....the OP is just a wet behind the ears NEW pilot who is just drinking the kool aid??!!

CardBoardCutout....You call me a troll....hah....unlike you, I actually work for ATI (the company the original thread is about), so I do have a reason to comment on your garbage. Who do you work for? ABX, Atlas...or maybe you are the one who is truly a troll and you don’t even work for and ACMI carrier.

The issue I was pointing out is that this thread was hijacked a long time ago. That says something about the hijackers...if they were truly about solidarity and making real change, there are a lot more productive ways to do it. Hijacking a forum thread to grind your axe against another pilot group truly shows your lack of professionalism. You talk all this solidarity, why don’t you set the example.

Finally, as far as the comments Jeff Bezos made in this short video...not sure you understand what he is talking about. Corporate governance and oversight of Amazon have nothing to do with your issues with your employer. They are still the customer for now and it does not matter that your company over promised...that is not on Amazon.

One day in the not too distant future some of us will be employed directly by Amazon, because the FAA will compel them to operate on their own certificate as they did with UPS back in the day. Then and only then could your fight be with Amazon, but I have a feeling those of you that think this fight is so important, will never be employed by Amazon Air anyhow.

Time to move on fellas...and if you really want to make a difference, create a thread of your own that discusses these issues...you may find it a bit more helpful.


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Correction...OP was about Hiring at ATI....but same difference


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AGAIN, I don't think you do get it! Once again, you're confusing your "prejudice" against picketing the customer with criticism of the customer.

I've already explained the difference.

You don't like the tactic, fine! Don't do it.

See how easy that is?

Do you ever considered that the Amazon people may have no interest in matters between you and your employer? In fact they maybe downright annoyed by a group of people tooling around their front door ?

If you drove a Toyota, would you be ok with Toyota employees picketing your house because Toyota closed their only union plant in the US ?

But as someone else rightly pointed out, this has degenerated into an epic thread drift....I’m out.

Ok I will quote you again. Read the last 2 lines of YOUR post. Now let me reiterate. Why oh why is it OK to picket your customers but not go on strike against them? The answer, it’s NOT ok. Yet again, we know the difference between the strike and picket. That’s not what we’re talking about.

I absolutely get the tactic here. Show your customers that your employer is a problem and get the customer to set your employer straight. Here is the problem however (at least with amazon), Amazon doesn’t care about your or managements problems. They care about getting their freight moved from point A to point B on time and safely. Atlas/southern pilots have legitimate grievances against their management. Amazon doesn’t care. It’s not a good tactic to mess with the customers.

Messing with amazon, not just picketing but slowdowns and last minute fatigue calls has indeed forced their hand. A bridge for the future has been burned and now at least 2 airframes have been removed and sent to ATI. By the looks of it, likely all birds will be pulled and given to ATI. Think about how stubborn Amazon has been with ABX. Atlas won’t be getting those birds back, not until it’s cold in hell.

Lastly, anyone can criticize amazon all they want. Do that privately. Don’t do it publicly. It will only hurt you. But hey, you all do you.

Yes you are correct. This seems to be a common theme with other ACMIs who are having a difficult time these days (read turning into an ATI vs Atlas, ABX). I too am out. If I cannot make myself any more clear to these guys then I am spinning my wheels.

Moderator input
 

Those who contribute to thread drift should not complain about thread drift. :rolleyes:

Does anyone know if the hiring window will reopen this month?