Amazon 737 Freighters
 

Come on over and enjoy 17+ days trips making $79.60/hr at minimum guarantee for 3 years before you finally see a pay raise. All the way up to $84/hr at year 4. Never mind that year 1 guarantee is 50 hours a month, and then 62 hours a month after that. Never mind that it’s almost impossible to break guarantee.

No contract in sight, but hey, at least we’ll get to fly some more of Amazon’s shiny jets for them!

Plus, you will probably get to fly with street captains if you don’t meet the PIC requirements . The last upgrade went to a pilot with 5 1/2 months on property. 😱.

A street hire captain will make approximately $1600 x 3 months training pay and then $116.98 x 50 hour first year guarantee That’s a little over $57k in the first year (not including the little bit of perdiem you might be able to pocket).

Everytime I read these articles I keep asking myself if this industry has reached its bottom yet. Guess not and sad.

If you read into the SEC filing on how the deal is structured, it all but solidifies that Atlas/Southern will remain a contractor for many years to come. The deal is structured where GECAS owns the airplanes and leases them to Amazon. Amazon then leases them to Atlas/Southern where Amazon retains all the flexibility.

This deal really highlights the significant threat of massive layoffs for the pilots of Atlas/Southern down the road when/if Amazon decided to start up their own airline.

It’s almost like a regional whipsaw circa till a few years ago. Maybe someone will make contract concessions in exchange for airframes. Shiny ones. With other folks hopes and dreams painted on the tail.

Or sell their souls? Think we have a group that's done that.

Who do you expect to take the concessions?

Well. 4 years with the company, still no CBA, still the lowest paid. Move along.

ATI?

Name me one ACMI carrier that has an industry standard contract- I mean comparable to the big 3, FedEx etc. Even when you throw in gateway/home basing its still not enough compensation to be equal.

Personally I'd say anything below that is concessionary.

Nailed it!

No one. I’m saying that this shenanigans is exactly like RJ flying.

A few yours ago? That’s been going on for 30 years.

Name one ACMI carrier that has the seniority numbers to leverage a company for those great big 3 contracts?

And name one of those big 3 that will also support that poor little ACMI with a symphony strike.

Kings, Lords, Commoners, and Peasants we are.

Lord HeavyDriver

I agree, I thought you were taking a shot at southern guys, my bad.

Would that be Mahler's 6th? (Nicknamed "Tragic") :D

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Thanks for the info

I wouldn’t/won’t give it a second thought—and I’m typed in the 73.

Tbnt

Your 100% right the trouble is when you don’t own your own content you lose lots of leverage. The company issuing the contract can just move said contract to someone else and will. Getting good leverage/ pressure on the DHL and Amazon types is the answer. The Delta FedEx contracts aren’t because the corporations are nice guys , if they could get away with paying pilots 50% less they would.

The LCC's own their own content but don't have the contracts of the big three. Much more to it. Look at the costs to operate each flight, what percentage of it goes to the pilots? A tiny percent. I dare say that the LCC's could pay way more, and the big five could easily get away with paying much less.
So what really drives it?

I'll tell you, its the PILOTS, it is not rocket science. As long as pilots vote to pass these dumb CBA's and accept a low sub standard wage, no benefits, lack of retirement, crappy work rules, the pilot group ALWAYS loses. Mean while management is banking nice bonus checks monthly on our efforts. Line pilots need to draw a hard line in the sand and stick together and don't budge, then and only then will ACMI carriers start to come into their own. In the mean time Amazon, DHL, ATSG, Atlas and other companies are laughing all the way to the bank........suckers

You guys still don't get "it". Numpties.

Is this honestly what the pay is?! Embellishing or being serious? If it is that's astounding. How do you guys operate at that pay? I'm on a CRJ and make just a tad over $100K and work about half the month. I'm not trying sound facetious at all honestly. If thats really the pay I'm dumbfounded how those aircraft move at all. I'm pretty shocked really. I take it no one, NO ONE, is showing up to class for this. If I were offered a job and they told me that was the pay I think I'd have a good laugh and then say, no really whats the pay? Edited because I also want to add, you gentlemen/Ladies deserve much better. Best of luck.

Nobody deserves anything in life and is what you negotiate and knowing ones self worth.

No embellishing. That is what the Southern LOA/Atlas CBA pays a new hire 737 captain. But hey, a second year 737 captain will make approximately $89k ($120.49/hr x 62 x 12). That’s the sad, sad truth.

Oh but shiiiiiiiiiiiiny jet!!!! If only the ATI guys would share the Amazon pilot bag tags!

Why don't you do us all a favor and grace us with your expert opinion? :rolleyes:

Actually wouldn’t surprise me if they did fill the seats initially. Atlas has hired quite a few pilots lately with no Turbine PIC time. And upgrades in the 767 and 747 have slowed down.
So for those individuals who want/need the PIC time, the 737 might be for them. It’s either that or go to Mesa ;)

The problem I see with that logic is how you get pilots from one seniority list to another. As of now Atlas and Southern are not on one list.

I could see direct entry CA on the 737, but without seniority list integration they'll have a hard time moving pilots from the 767 and 747 over to the 737.

Direct Entry Captain into a 737 for $50,000 a year? Oh yeah there’s no doubt Atlas will bend some more metal.

Do you think they care?

No I don’t. It’s not like they have a tremendous reputation in the industry to uphold. But if they bend one into a kindergarten the lawsuits might force them off the golf course.

Everything is fine, we will definitely stop narrowly escaping terrain, buckling fuselages and climbing out with localizer antennas hanging off the main gear. The trajectory the airline is on is perfectly fine, no problems here, I would definitely put my family on an Atlas jet anytime.

That's my point. Or alternatively if a pax bird goes down. Seems like just a couple of people (or even 3) losing their lives isn't really that exciting to the public.

Or how about pushing one into the ground?

“I could see direct entry CA on the 737, but without seniority list integration they'll have a hard time moving pilots from the 767 and 747 over to the 737.”

Very true. We don’t know yet what fences will be put into place and how long.
So initially, new hires for the 737 and maybe 777 fo’s who are looking for a quicker upgrade.
Time will tell how all this will work out.
Stay tuned....

Well there is the option that you get a sh1t sandwich of a contract forced upon you which then allows for a seniority list integration...so I wouldn't write off the idea that 747 or 767 drivers can come over.

There's also the fences as you say, but my bet is it'll be a timeline or addition of aircraft clause. So they might say after the first 5 737-800s are on property fences come down.

My expert opinion is you're so busy telling me how bad I have it while all I can do is shake my head and how much better you think you have it.

Here's an idea... You worry about your QoL and those of us who are not "worthy" of joining those doing the night sorts or hub turns in narrow bodies worry about our QoL. Seems to work for us.

Umm I think I missed the point where he said narrow body pilots aren’t worthy. In fact if my interpretation is correct, he is advocating for you to have a better QOL, pay and work rules.

What I am hearing from you though is that mediocre is good enough.

Unfortunately your peers and those flying for other airlines that will have to negotiate based on what the bottom dollar is care how bad you have it. When management comes to the table during negotiations to ask why pilot group X is so much cheaper, it puts everyone else in a bad situation.

^^^^^ this! ^^^^^^

I think you've entirely missed the point that some of us enjoy the tradeoffs of ACMI flying to the point that we don't want to be burdened with the NB hub-hub turns or sitting thru a sort and are willing to horsetrade to keep the lives we have.

I can't think of many people where I am now who would willingly make the trade for "big 3" pay if it meant losing the type of schedules we get. Insinuating that we're all underpaid unless we're following "big 3" or FedEx type rules is ludicrous.

I never said pay alone was the only issue. You obviously have to look at work rules and the total package. I personally think you are selling yourself short though. Your position seems to be current book is ok/the best deal you can expect.

Look at it this way, even the LCCs make more and have better work rules. What makes you think that your negotiating committee can’t get you the best of both worlds improving on both your compensation while also getting you better work rules that would affect your schedule positively?

Heck these days even the regionals have some better work rules.