Birdsmash

I can only speak for the 777 side. You will be expected to fly to ATP standards and act like you are a captain in training with upgrade just around the corner. If you expect to rely on your fellow crew members for knowledge instead of knowing the manuals. Or, are the type of pilot that needs the captain to tell them how to manipulate the AFDS during a complicated departure/arrival then you should look somewhere else. Atlas/Southern Training is not the farm leagues.

My fellow Check Airmen and I are not willing to allow somebody to upgrade that can’t fly around the world with three fresh out of OE FO’s or pass a FO who will be a burden to their fellow crew members. In the end you are being trained by you fellow pilots that will have to fly with you. When it comes down to deciding if you are qualified to go to the line, fleet growth and management’s aspirations do not have even the slightest influence.

If the above does not worry you then you will have no problems.

CardboardCutout

You wish it were? Am I missing something? I mean I can see wishing that they would only hire people who were capable of passing the training and becoming effective, competent FOs, but it reads more like you wish they'd wash out 60% of the trainees...who would then have to go through the rest of their careers with a Scarlet F in their file. I'm going to assume I'm misreading you.

goinaround

Yes you're missing something. He was referring to the posts that stated that everyone got a NAT crossing on IOE...to include ABX. But that was only accurate way way back in the long long ago of good 'ol Airborne. Those IRS only non CPDLC equipped birds see water only once in a blue moon. Soon to be never.

vroll1800

goinaround, there are many people who think that the days of the "good 'ol Airborne ended before ABX started regular Transatlantic flying. (hint-before they opened JFK domicile).

4runner

Yes. Captain went to the bunk prior to coast out. I know one of the crews. They didn’t know how to use HF or find gander on vhf.

GogglesPisano

It really comes down to a question of training. It sounds like more OE is required. And these subjects should be covered in Indoc.

Either that or Southern et al needs to do a better job of attracting guys who’ve been around the proverbial wide-body international track a few times.

Either option won’t come cheep. And failing guys will scare applicants away.

Time to pay the piper and stop blaming new hires.

nitefr8dog

Actually it is accurate.....ck with DG.
Might not have been that way when you were signed off but all new hires will get an Etops sign off crossing. The cavot is they have to have 100 hrs in the aircraft ( which might happen on IOE )

abxflyr

The original quote was "everyone" gets a NAT during OE and their initial checkout. To which I responded... No. Not everyone in the past time have received a real-time NAT check; there are some that are simulated. Just as they are done on a recurrent/line check basis now.

As you have accurately stated, now (in 2017/18/19) all new-hires are getting a NAT crossing with a check-pilot. This may occur during OE, or may happen sometime afterwards (but prior to any ETOPS ops with a line pilot). Of course this can all change on a dime with the loss of the single route, ABX would revert back to "simulation" as the answer. <sad>

4runner

[QUOTE=GogglesPisano;2824676]It really comes down to a question of training. It sounds like more OE is required. And these subjects should be covered...

You can train to rote or to a ****ty curriculum all you want. If you’re only getting low skill or low experience, you get what you pay for.

nitefr8dog

And then the new hires will not be ETOPS qualified if we do not have a Class II route. Also I was talking about now....which is why I said "so does" instead of did.