MaydayMark

Actually... the KIX-MEM flight is scheduled to arrive VERY early in the sort. I've diverted to TUL do to wx in MEM, got mo' fuel and still made the sort.

But ... as someone stated earlier, if we take their recommended fuel and have to divert, the problem will be self-correcting in a very short time.


Regards,



Mark

Jetjok

This is my first post in a while, but I thought I'd wade in here. Yes, Deuce130, you are "missing something." The first thing you're missing is that you're an idiot, both for your above post, as well as your earlier post in this thread of: "You'd think the S/O would notice such a thing....of course, poor eyesight, degraded hearing, a penchant for falling asleep, slow reflexes, and/or a weakened prostate might have something to do with that... ". The vast majority of s/o's are young guys, not oldsters, or didn't you know that either.

That said, you don't seem to understand that it costs gas to carry extra gas. A lot, in fact. That's not to say that the captain should not put on enough extra gas to plan for anticipated contingencies, but to just blindly put on extra, flight after flight, must cost the company a ton. I agree that having a jet miss the sort, because there was not enough fuel on board is very, very costly, however, if every captain loaded an extra 3 or 5 thousand pounds of gas, each trip, well, maybe you get the idea.

If we actually fly the flight-planned routing as well as planned mach, to the destination airport, execute an instrument approach and landing, most jets will shut down with very close to the planned fuel projection. History is a strong predictor of future performance. However, if the captain wants extra gas, then he gets extra gas. Of course the worst reason to put on extra gas is "just because I'm the captain."

Huck

Go see if you're coffee's ready, JJ. You appear to need a cup....

Sluggo_63

I agree that there's nothing worse than sucking seat cushion due to fuel, but I have to laugh, though, when the captain puts on an extra 3K, just because "the company is always trying to short him gas." Then he/she proceeds to fly 4000' lower than the FP/R and at .84++ when we were scheduled at .80. When we land, they point at the fuel gauges and proclaim "good thing we put on that extra gas... we woulda been screwed if we hadn't." Yeah, great job...

ptarmigan

How much are Delta, Northwest, United, American, etc, landing with in the same or similar type aircraft?

What is their dispatch reliability?

How many airplanes have they "lost" due to running out of fuel?

These are the questions that ALPA is in a lot better position to assess than line pilots who have established a "comfort zone" based on what they have become used to. Or is it, maybe, that the pilots of those carriers are a lot better at keeping track and managing their own aircraft? If you think the dispatches are those places are really more involved than our GOC guys are, you probably never worked for one of them....

Huck

On the MD11, at least, you'll burn 1/3 of it just to carry it. I.E. If you add 3000, you'll burn an extra 1000.

The whole Millington thing is spooky to me, however. One big terrorist alert in MEM and we're all heading there. I always visualize the carriers off Vietnam during the fall of Saigon, pushing the excess aircraft overboard.

SabreDriver

I think so, in most A/C for every 5K you land with you burned at least 1-1.5K carrying it there on an average flight. Lots of variables, so "your milage will vary". But, if one was to extrapolate it out across every sortie the company flies every day/night, it becomes a VERY large number very quickly. So for a company like FDX it might be like buying and burning an extra 150K of Jet-A a day, every day. Assuming 2000 sorties/day.

Now for the "math in public part", 150K x 365= 54,750K /6.8lbs/gal = 8,054,750 gallons per year! At what cost per gallon? Will that be Cash, Credit, Debit, or Profit Sharing?

Remember, that's just 5k extra at arrival per sortie.... but it has consequenses (sp), don't get me wrong, when I think I need the gas, I put in every drop I think I need, for all the reasons stated prior in the thread, right to the point I reach max gross, and then the freight starts coming off the jet.

It's all a calculated risk/reward, and the folks making the calculations are not in the jet like you and I are. Just make your own decision concerning fuel loads, just be prepared to defend your decision.

Gunter

GOC claims they only put Millington on a percentage of the aircraft flight releases every couple of hours. Don't know for sure...

I too love the Captain that has to have the extra 3K all the time and uses as much of it has he possibly can (lower and faster flying). That's willful.

But what really kills me is when a CA and FO look at the FAT and are proud that flying faster didn't cost anything on a particular flight. I have to point out the fuel for taxi and enroute burn, taking out the enroute extra, and show how we did, indeed, burn more than forecast flying fast.

That said, there are very good times to get 3-6k more. Flying fast on a day flight to get to the outstation early without fatigue issues isn't one of them. 400-1500 pounds of gas gone at .83-.84 instead of .80 (727). The company could have installed ACARS and forced guys to save gas on the 727. Too bad they didn't.

MAWK90

Let us not forget about the "fuel surcharge" to our customers that was instituted post 9-11 and never removed.

Lippy

Shouldn't we make some procedural/operational changes FIRST?... Resulting in decent fuel savings. Then maybe we could reduce FPR fuel.

I smell MBO points.