Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-20-2007, 09:28 PM   #1  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Tuck's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD11 FO
Posts: 779
Default Supplemental vs Flag Carrier

FEDEX is operating under a 121 Supplemental Certificate. For the most part I understand this means that we don't have dispatchers, just "flight followers" and that we must have an alternate regardless of weather.

There's a move to make FEDEX operate under Flag rules for Domestic ops. This would mean that GOC would have to operate as dispatchers and also the removal of mandatory alternates which, in turn would lessen the fuel loads and save money? I believe UPS is now operating under Flag rules for Domestic ops.

What are all the differences and ramifications of the different certificates? Thanks.
Tuck is offline  
Old 05-20-2007, 09:54 PM   #2  
Gets Weekends Off
 
de727ups's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,348
Default

UPS even has an exemption to the 1,2,3 rule for alternates. You can get by with no alternate if the wx forcast is 1000/2 or better, but you need Cat2 or 3 capability to do it.
de727ups is offline  
Old 05-21-2007, 07:09 AM   #3  
Line Dawg
 
slaveship's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: 777 Captain LCA
Posts: 147
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuck View Post
FEDEX is operating under a 121 Supplemental Certificate. For the most part I understand this means that we don't have dispatchers, just "flight followers" and that we must have an alternate regardless of weather.

There's a move to make FEDEX operate under Flag rules for Domestic ops. This would mean that GOC would have to operate as dispatchers and also the removal of mandatory alternates which, in turn would lessen the fuel loads and save money? I believe UPS is now operating under Flag rules for Domestic ops.

What are all the differences and ramifications of the different certificates? Thanks.

You have stated the big issues for the most part. According to 2 pilots who were on the committee appointed by PC and chaired by DV, our GOC guys are already licensed anyway. Most of them. That will be minimal pain. I was told that if the weather at our destination is better than 2000/3, we would have no alternate fuel. The pax guys do this day to day. What concerns me is the MEM operation especially on a south flow. I have been really scoosh on fuel on clear nights with holding from center for upwards of 1 hour then given 30 mile finals at MEM when landing south. We will all have to be vigilant on fuel. I was also told that FDX tried to do this before but Capts were adding the alternate fuel anyway. This is surely just a bit of info. I am sure we have many on our seniority list who have operated under flags ops so there should be tons of corporate knowledge available on this board.
slaveship is offline  
Old 05-21-2007, 10:29 AM   #4  
Gets Off
 
md11phlyer's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Nordskog Industries Field Technician
Posts: 688
Default

If they want us to use FLAG rules then I want REAL TAF's. Not just a note saying 'ABOVE 2000/3.'
md11phlyer is offline  
Old 05-21-2007, 07:47 PM   #5  
Gets all holidays off
 
fr8rcaptain's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: UPS 767 Captain, SDF Z
Posts: 429
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuck View Post
FEDEX is operating under a 121 Supplemental Certificate. For the most part I understand this means that we don't have dispatchers, just "flight followers" and that we must have an alternate regardless of weather.

There's a move to make FEDEX operate under Flag rules for Domestic ops. This would mean that GOC would have to operate as dispatchers and also the removal of mandatory alternates which, in turn would lessen the fuel loads and save money? I believe UPS is now operating under Flag rules for Domestic ops.

What are all the differences and ramifications of the different certificates? Thanks.
Yes, we did initially operate under supplemental rules, but went to flag/domestic ops in the early1990's (93 or 94). The biggest change was domestic, where supplemental rules required an alternate airport for each leg, even if the destination was CAVOK. Our "dispatchers" did all the functions of a dispatcher, but all this was in prep for going to domestic ops. Once we dropped the supplemental alternate on every leg, we started saving a lot of gas....but everyone sure noticed the much lower fuel at destinations if the wx was good!!

I'm sure there are several more differences, such as ops and MX FAA oversight, etc. You could always look at the FARs...
fr8rcaptain is offline  
 
 
 

 
Post Reply
 



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
121 Supplemental Duty/Rest McAyr Cargo 21 05-31-2007 08:47 PM
Skybus Airlines -- a startup carrier that hopes to begin flying by this spring Southerncowboyz Major 2 10-31-2006 08:53 PM
Rough Carrier Landing (video) SWAjet Hangar Talk 4 08-13-2006 07:51 PM
Which Legacy Carrier Should Fold?? redbaron84 Major 31 01-06-2006 08:37 AM
UPS purchasing UK parcel carrier Freighter Captain Cargo 0 07-25-2005 01:36 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:17 AM.