Commuting on ABX

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02-05-2024, 10:11 AM

#11

redbone

Line Holder

Joined APC: Jul 2017

Posts: 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reactivity

When we're hiring (emphasis on when), we take whatever level of experience we can get.

Five years ago, the experience level was mostly at least several years at a regional, probably with a year or two as a captain. Then as major airline hiring picked up, it became experienced regional FOs. Then newer FOs. Then FOs who had barely finished IOE at a regional. Now we're down to 1500 hour ATPs with zero turbine time, maybe even as little as 25 hours of multiengine time.

With the declining level of experience in new hires, there has been a concomitant rise in the number of washouts in all segments of training, from the classroom through IOE, and even sometimes beyond that. We are adjusting as best we can. IOE used to be 20 to 25 hours - you were done in two weeks. Now it regularly runs to 100 hours or more, and some have gone to around 150 hours. Some still aren't ready for the line at that point. There is no hard limit, but we do reach a point at which we gesture in the direction of the door and advise an exit to find a job more suited to their current skill level.

Experience matters. Mass and momentum are for real, and managing energy is a skill that is developed with time and practice. It is not a trivial thing to go from handling 1,500 pounds to controlling 400,000 pounds and from a 70-knot approach speed to a 150-knot approach speed. I have seen a few low-time ATPs breeze through training and IOE, but they are the exceptions. So I would advise before trying to make the leap from light GA to heavy jets that you thoroughly and objectively evaluate your level of knowledge and skill. Maybe even get an outside opinion. You don't want to try this before you're ready.

PM sent..... filler

02-05-2024, 10:18 AM

#12

Reactivity

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jun 2006

Position: Left, right & center

Posts: 774

Quote:

Originally Posted by vetter

LOL dude. Frontier, spirit, etc. Are all taking 1500 hour Cfis and they do absolutely good in training.

I can't speak to what's going on at any of those airlines, but I'd be shocked if the average low-time new-hire is getting through IOE in 25 hours. American, which certainly isn't hiring 1500-hour CFIs, is now giving up to 200 hours of IOE.

Quote:

Even the euro folks who go into an A380 at 250 total hours do well.

Now you're just saying random stuff. British Airways won't hire you for a long-haul position without 1500 hours in a type that meets ZFTT requirements. Even for short-haul at BA, you need 500 hours in type. Just to emphasize - that's time in type, not total time. As far as I can tell (my German-fu is not so strong), Lufthansa won't look at you without an ATPL or at least a CPL meeting ATPL requirements. So no 250-hour Euronewbies in the A380.

Quote:

It has nothing to do with the amount of hours you have. And more about how disciplined you are.

Up to a point. Some learn more quickly than others, but discipline and effort alone do not develop skill.

I have flown with one who came directly from flight instructing and did very well. But in general, the amount and type of experience matters. The two brand new 1500-hour ATPs I've seen who did the best had significant high-performance turbine time. One had been flying a Piaggio Avanti and the other had a few hundred hours in large-cabin Citations and Lear 35s.

Quote:

In the end... Those who "washout" of ABX's great training program do so just because they are lazy and don't study, nothing to do with experience.

There have certainly been plenty of washouts due to lack of effort. But if you're going to claim there is no correlation between experience and success in this training program, you're going to have to find a way to explain why, as the experience level of new-hires has declined, the training failure rate and the amount of IOE required to get them on line has increased significantly while the instructors and most of the check airmen doing the training have not changed.

The ones I've personally witnessed washing out of IOE were not slackers - one in particular showed up very well-prepared every day - but they were low-time and they lacked any significant high-performance turbine experience. The rest fall somewhere in the middle, and in general, low time and lack of applicable experience correlates very highly with increased chance of failure and an extended training footprint.

Quote:

If you can go from a 172 to a regional jet which many many people do (and in fact it can be HARDER than flying a 767 like a CRJ900/700/200)

HA HA! No. One of the washouts I mentioned had completed IOE at a regional. And I seriously doubt you even have any heavy jet experience with which to make that comparison.

Quote:

...then you can go to a 767 easily. It really isn't as impossible as you make it seem.

I never said it's impossible. I warned against underestimating the amount of effort it will require without having sufficient experience to develop the skills needed for success.

I'm actually questioning at this point whether you're for real or just trolling. Or maybe both. In the past week, you've posted on at least three different ABX-related threads asking about ABX and saying you'll give ABX a shot while, on the same day, telling someone else, "Go to atlas or Kalitta bruv. Don't even think about it." You know next to nothing about any of these companies, but you're dispensing career advice?

Best I can tell from your posting history (assuming you're for real), you were employed at Mesa about this time last year. Then it looks like you went to Spirit. Then in a post in the Spirit forum, you intimated that you were at United. Now you're saying you'll give ABX a shot? People leave ABX for LCCs and major airlines. They don't go the other direction, at least not by choice. Something doesn't add up.

02-06-2024, 07:13 PM

#13

SpaceRanger3000

On Reserve

Joined APC: Sep 2022

Posts: 14

For those commuting to CVG base, how are you doing your state income taxes? I'm not expecting professional advice here just want to know what people are doing and if they can connect me with their tax pro. I've heard different things from pilots AND tax pros. From you pay your home state income tax, to you pay Kentucky because over 50% of your (income was earned), (flight hours originated from) or (time was spent living) there.