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Commuting on ABX

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Old 02-02-2024, 01:55 AM
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Default Commuting on ABX

Do they provide flight tickets for commuting as Amerijet or Atlas do?
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Old 02-02-2024, 05:55 AM
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Go to atlas or Kalitta bruv. Don't even think about it.
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Old 02-02-2024, 09:47 AM
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ABX is not home-based, therefore you do not get tickets/hotels/perdiem during your time at domicile (CVG). There are pros/cons to homebasing vs domicile airlines; many ACMIs (not all) use the home based model. Almost all the major/LCCs and other aircargo operators operate from domiciles (AA, DAL, SWA, UAL, FDX, UPS, etc.). For ABX, if your trip happens to have a commercial segement at the beginning/end, you can use that ticket to/from your home...although there are not alot of trips that have this.
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Old 02-03-2024, 06:51 AM
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If someone were interested in moving to CVG it sounds like the low utilization on reserve could be a good deal. What does a junior guy reserve schedule look like, week on/week off or one large block? Trying to determine what the average length or trip would be for a new guy.
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Old 02-03-2024, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by vetter View Post
Go to atlas or Kalitta bruv. Don't even think about it.
Absolutely, yes - you should definitely do whatever some internet randos tell you to do with your career. Don't apply any of your own thoughts about your own goals or needs.
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Old 02-03-2024, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by redbone View Post
What does a junior guy reserve schedule look like, week on/week off or one large block?
Yes.

The union regularly surveys the membership to determine what kinds of schedules they like - single block of days off, two blocks of days off, or three blocks of days off. They provide the results of those surveys to the company and encourage them to build schedules in line with those results. As a result, you should be able to get something close to the type of schedule you like. About half of the reserve lines are a single block of days off, divided about evenly between lines with a single block of work days and a single block of 14 days off, or two blocks of work days of varying lengths with a block of 14 days off between them. Most of the other half is two blocks of days off, resulting in two or three blocks of work days, and the remainder are three blocks of days off.

Trying to determine what the average length or trip would be for a new guy.
There are a few 1-day out & backs, usually on weekends. There are a bunch of 1-night layover (actually, day layover - out before 6 AM, back by 3 AM) trips. There are several 36-hour layover trips. The four-day weekends tend to go senior. The multi-day Miami-Bogota trips tend to get picked up when they're open because they're easy (day flying out & back with a day off in Miami between flights), likewise the multi-day LAX-SFO shuttle (short flights & long layovers). The longest remaining trip is a multi-day Amazon pairing, which is scheduled to end at the end of March. So if you're on reserve, when you do fly, it probably won't cover more than two days.
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Old 02-04-2024, 05:55 PM
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Thats great info appreciate that. It seems like a way better gig than the regionals if yall are truly taking 1500 CFI's.
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Old 02-04-2024, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by redbone View Post
Thats great info appreciate that. It seems like a way better gig than the regionals if yall are truly taking 1500 CFI's.
When we're hiring (emphasis on when), we take whatever level of experience we can get.

Five years ago, the experience level was mostly at least several years at a regional, probably with a year or two as a captain. Then as major airline hiring picked up, it became experienced regional FOs. Then newer FOs. Then FOs who had barely finished IOE at a regional. Now we're down to 1500 hour ATPs with zero turbine time, maybe even as little as 25 hours of multiengine time.

With the declining level of experience in new hires, there has been a concomitant rise in the number of washouts in all segments of training, from the classroom through IOE, and even sometimes beyond that. We are adjusting as best we can. IOE used to be 20 to 25 hours - you were done in two weeks. Now it regularly runs to 100 hours or more, and some have gone to around 150 hours. Some still aren't ready for the line at that point. There is no hard limit, but we do reach a point at which we gesture in the direction of the door and advise an exit to find a job more suited to their current skill level.

Experience matters. Mass and momentum are for real, and managing energy is a skill that is developed with time and practice. It is not a trivial thing to go from handling 1,500 pounds to controlling 400,000 pounds and from a 70-knot approach speed to a 150-knot approach speed. I have seen a few low-time ATPs breeze through training and IOE, but they are the exceptions. So I would advise before trying to make the leap from light GA to heavy jets that you thoroughly and objectively evaluate your level of knowledge and skill. Maybe even get an outside opinion. You don't want to try this before you're ready.
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Old 02-05-2024, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Reactivity View Post
When we're hiring (emphasis on when), we take whatever level of experience we can get.

Five years ago, the experience level was mostly at least several years at a regional, probably with a year or two as a captain. Then as major airline hiring picked up, it became experienced regional FOs. Then newer FOs. Then FOs who had barely finished IOE at a regional. Now we're down to 1500 hour ATPs with zero turbine time, maybe even as little as 25 hours of multiengine time.

With the declining level of experience in new hires, there has been a concomitant rise in the number of washouts in all segments of training, from the classroom through IOE, and even sometimes beyond that. We are adjusting as best we can. IOE used to be 20 to 25 hours - you were done in two weeks. Now it regularly runs to 100 hours or more, and some have gone to around 150 hours. Some still aren't ready for the line at that point. There is no hard limit, but we do reach a point at which we gesture in the direction of the door and advise an exit to find a job more suited to their current skill level.

Experience matters. Mass and momentum are for real, and managing energy is a skill that is developed with time and practice. It is not a trivial thing to go from handling 1,500 pounds to controlling 400,000 pounds and from a 70-knot approach speed to a 150-knot approach speed. I have seen a few low-time ATPs breeze through training and IOE, but they are the exceptions. So I would advise before trying to make the leap from light GA to heavy jets that you thoroughly and objectively evaluate your level of knowledge and skill. Maybe even get an outside opinion. You don't want to try this before you're ready.
LOL dude. Frontier, spirit, etc. Are all taking 1500 hour Cfis and they do absolutely good in training. Even the euro folks who go into an A380 at 250 total hours do well. It has nothing to do with the amount of hours you have. And more about how disciplined you are. Which is why all airlines including ABX see other things in your overall profile to see how disciplined and hardworking you are in terms of studying or other things.

Stuff such as a bachelor's degree puts you very high in the list. Volunteer work. Union work.

In the end... Those who "washout" of ABX's great training program do so just because they are lazy and don't study, nothing to do with experience. If you can go from a 172 to a regional jet which many many people do (and in fact it can be HARDER than flying a 767 like a CRJ900/700/200), then you can go to a 767 easily. It really isn't as impossible as you make it seem.
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Old 02-05-2024, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by vetter View Post
LOL dude. Frontier, spirit, etc. Are all taking 1500 hour Cfis and they do absolutely good in training. Even the euro folks who go into an A380 at 250 total hours do well. It has nothing to do with the amount of hours you have. And more about how disciplined you are. Which is why all airlines including ABX see other things in your overall profile to see how disciplined and hardworking you are in terms of studying or other things.

Stuff such as a bachelor's degree puts you very high in the list. Volunteer work. Union work.

In the end... Those who "washout" of ABX's great training program do so just because they are lazy and don't study, nothing to do with experience. If you can go from a 172 to a regional jet which many many people do (and in fact it can be HARDER than flying a 767 like a CRJ900/700/200), then you can go to a 767 easily. It really isn't as impossible as you make it seem.
Going from smashing bugs to jerking gear in Fifi at a ULCC is trivial. My dog can fly the airbus while drunk.

A 250 hr, ab-initio FO can only do a rote-learned, limited script, and going off-script will put them into the seawall.

Flying ACMI backside of the clock into places like BOG in a Boeing heavy with a wet ATP is difficult.

These are generally true.

If they weren't generally true statements, LOE wouldn't require 90+ hours and CAs wouldn't need to say "let's not click it off until 500'..."

"2 seconds inside, 1 second outside" has to be beat into them. The scan is just atrophied (if it was even developed to begin with) after hours of pylon eights. You can eyeball approaches in a RJ, you can't in the light twin.

I know when I hear a 1500 CFI 767 FO on ground freq in SFO.

OTOH, there are folks who are intelligible on HF. Who can click it off at 11,000 and fly the downwind to 18L or 18C on a nice day. Is the CA pucker factor 9000, or are they glued to the window snapping pictures of downtown? Are they 1000/1250/1500 hr wonders? or experienced from other parts of the industry?

You make the call (Presented by IBM).
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