Can anyone relay 18 July Hub Turn MTG Notes
07-18-2007, 09:01 AM
#21
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Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 1,804
Originally Posted by JC Dude
Except for the fact that I don't plan on bidding it now, I agree with you. It ain't the best but it's a place to anchor at and move forward.
FWIW, you may be mad at the MEC or the company or just pick somebody for this LOA, but the union is pushing this thing hard. Nobody is getting paid off as has been said. They feel this is the best we can do right now and its overwhelming. If it is really as bad as everyone here makes it out to be, why doesn't the union say it. Nobody needs be so arrogant to think that we are the only pilots that can do this.
Have at it fellas.
JC Dude
FWIW, you may be mad at the MEC or the company or just pick somebody for this LOA, but the union is pushing this thing hard. Nobody is getting paid off as has been said. They feel this is the best we can do right now and its overwhelming. If it is really as bad as everyone here makes it out to be, why doesn't the union say it. Nobody needs be so arrogant to think that we are the only pilots that can do this.
Have at it fellas.
JC Dude
Well I submit to you that we have given back what we have and now are in reverse and will have to fight for what we already had.
Yes the tax equalization is a plus, but at the expense of the givebacks. But it is also a necessary component and FedEx knows that. If we vote no they will have to counter if they want anyone to bid it.
07-18-2007, 09:19 AM
#22
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Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Drinking from the fire hose
Posts: 305
Originally Posted by JC Dude
Except for the fact that I don't plan on bidding it now, I agree with you. It ain't the best but it's a place to anchor at and move forward.
FWIW, you may be mad at the MEC or the company or just pick somebody for this LOA, but the union is pushing this thing hard. Nobody is getting paid off as has been said. They feel this is the best we can do right now and its overwhelming. If it is really as bad as everyone here makes it out to be, why doesn't the union say it. Nobody needs be so arrogant to think that we are the only pilots that can do this.
Have at it fellas.
JC Dude
FWIW, you may be mad at the MEC or the company or just pick somebody for this LOA, but the union is pushing this thing hard. Nobody is getting paid off as has been said. They feel this is the best we can do right now and its overwhelming. If it is really as bad as everyone here makes it out to be, why doesn't the union say it. Nobody needs be so arrogant to think that we are the only pilots that can do this.
Have at it fellas.
JC Dude
07-18-2007, 09:30 AM
#23
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,193
Originally Posted by kc10/c130
I too was at the meeting and seeing that I was on B RSV, was there until they turned out the lights. I went in and was 99% positive I was voting no on this. Period. I'll probably be shot for this or at least beaten in a dark corner, but I am now 60% in the yes column. I also am someone who will bid this, so it directly affects me. Albie and many others said they want to know who will bid it and why to vote yes so here I go in a Readers Digest version and only the big reasons.
1. This is not an ideal agreement in any way you look at it. We, the company and ALPA, need each other but we can get in a p*s#ng contest and no one will win. STV, a HUGE sticking point for me, is now one month. Argue it any way you want and throw me under the bus but it is one month. One month is a vacation, not a deployment as 3 months is, at least to me and I speak for no one else. O.R. directly addressed it in the meeting and after with me and others and I believe it to be.
2. I want FedEx pilots flying this all the way. I DO NOT want us readdressing from the very beginning next contract and we start this all over again. Whether or not someone else is flying it or new hires, it will raise its head again at contract negotiations. This way we start from here and go up not start from square one again. There are sooooooo many areas that get addressed in one lump with the contract that I believe we will be right back here again with this exact offer. Then it will be held up against other parts of the contract and what are we willing to spend the most time and capital on.
3. Yes I've lived in Europe and yes I have kids and while it is not optimal it is enough to go with IMHO. I realize I will be hammered for this statement. It was addressed that some may live way out in order to afford it. I flatly disagree with that. Go to Paris, get on the train and go any direction for 20 minutes at a minimum, and you will get a pretty good place under European conditions. Am I getting my 2700 sq foot place with an acre. No Way, No How. I still really believe the company should get behind helping us find schools, etc but that is what it is.
4. There are a couple of others but the Healthcare won't be a problem in either location. As a MD11 guy, I have no desire to live in Guangzhou but if you are going to send me over do so for only a month and I'll take Hong Kong please.
5. I believe the MD11 will be there, as JL's letter said, these bases will open with or without this LOA, and by the time we get them up and running we will soon negotiate our contract. It won't be from the start again and we will have more data to know what is our needs.
6. That is my .02 cents and I hope everyone at least goes to the road show. Feel free to fry me, I mean educate me, or PM me but those are why I changed my mind... most of the way. No matter what VOTE.
1. This is not an ideal agreement in any way you look at it. We, the company and ALPA, need each other but we can get in a p*s#ng contest and no one will win. STV, a HUGE sticking point for me, is now one month. Argue it any way you want and throw me under the bus but it is one month. One month is a vacation, not a deployment as 3 months is, at least to me and I speak for no one else. O.R. directly addressed it in the meeting and after with me and others and I believe it to be.
2. I want FedEx pilots flying this all the way. I DO NOT want us readdressing from the very beginning next contract and we start this all over again. Whether or not someone else is flying it or new hires, it will raise its head again at contract negotiations. This way we start from here and go up not start from square one again. There are sooooooo many areas that get addressed in one lump with the contract that I believe we will be right back here again with this exact offer. Then it will be held up against other parts of the contract and what are we willing to spend the most time and capital on.
3. Yes I've lived in Europe and yes I have kids and while it is not optimal it is enough to go with IMHO. I realize I will be hammered for this statement. It was addressed that some may live way out in order to afford it. I flatly disagree with that. Go to Paris, get on the train and go any direction for 20 minutes at a minimum, and you will get a pretty good place under European conditions. Am I getting my 2700 sq foot place with an acre. No Way, No How. I still really believe the company should get behind helping us find schools, etc but that is what it is.
4. There are a couple of others but the Healthcare won't be a problem in either location. As a MD11 guy, I have no desire to live in Guangzhou but if you are going to send me over do so for only a month and I'll take Hong Kong please.
5. I believe the MD11 will be there, as JL's letter said, these bases will open with or without this LOA, and by the time we get them up and running we will soon negotiate our contract. It won't be from the start again and we will have more data to know what is our needs.
6. That is my .02 cents and I hope everyone at least goes to the road show. Feel free to fry me, I mean educate me, or PM me but those are why I changed my mind... most of the way. No matter what VOTE.
Patience is a virtue....don't kiss the first girl who comes walking down the street....and ALWAYS get "promises" in writing (...unfortunately that's why lawyers are a necessary evil).
Put down the Company Kool Aide and politely ask the MEC and the company to try again.
The company CAN and WILL do better....then bid the FDA and enjoy!
07-18-2007, 09:38 AM
#24
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Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Bus Driver
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by fdx727pilot
If you respect his opinion, then why insult him with your first paragraph? Sounds like you're being a little two-faced. Do you really respect an opposing opinion, or are you just being PC?
VOTE NO
07-18-2007, 11:43 AM
#25
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Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 767 CA
Posts: 1,876
I think it is quite obvious that the company desperately wants this. When was the last time the company pushed so hard for an agreement? I think they're showing that we do have leverage. But if we vote this in, then we wasted the leverage we have (had).
If this is a good place to start, then why not finish it now rather than in the next negotiations. We're in negotiations now.
Vote no.
If this is a good place to start, then why not finish it now rather than in the next negotiations. We're in negotiations now.
Vote no.
07-18-2007, 11:54 AM
#26
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Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Originally Posted by kc10/c130
One month is a vacation, not a deployment as 3 months is, at least to me and I speak for no one else. O.R. directly addressed it in the meeting and after with me and others and I believe it to be.
Unless you can answer this question (I have asked) you can't vote yes. Unless you have seen some realistic pairings (to include STV lines) you can't vote yes.
07-18-2007, 04:54 PM
#27
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,193
Originally Posted by Normy!
I saw last nights meeting; it was better than I expected. However:
Basically, if they don't amend IN WRITING that the STV period is limited to 30 days, then I'm against. JL's "word on it", no matter how great a guy he is...means nothing. Someone in mgt. above him can overrule his "word" any time they want to.
-Is there any reason that this is not a separate LOA?
Basically, if they don't amend IN WRITING that the STV period is limited to 30 days, then I'm against. JL's "word on it", no matter how great a guy he is...means nothing. Someone in mgt. above him can overrule his "word" any time they want to.
-Is there any reason that this is not a separate LOA?
Come on, one "verbal promise" on one aspect of this LOA and it's suddenly a good deal?
Removing STV alone does not help us to set the "std" for our quality of life at FDAs.
FDAs are where are growth is --- mgmt has repeatedly told us that.
We need to fight the good fight now --- not later, when we have accepted and ratified a substandard FDA.
07-18-2007, 07:53 PM
#28
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Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 398
Yes, if 30 days is the max they would send you for STV, then it has to be in writing. Otherwise, couldn't it be grieved when the 3 bid periods isn't fulfilled by they junior guys, and the creep up the seniority list? It's just bad ju-ju not to have it in ink. It could be unfairly imposed.
For me, the killer part was the 500 pound moving allotment. Last international trip, my two checked bags weighed 90 pounds. I only own three pairs of shoes, but surely would need more than 500 pounds of stuff for a two year stay. Even if I went commando.....
For me, the killer part was the 500 pound moving allotment. Last international trip, my two checked bags weighed 90 pounds. I only own three pairs of shoes, but surely would need more than 500 pounds of stuff for a two year stay. Even if I went commando.....
07-18-2007, 09:23 PM
#29
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Joined APC: May 2007
Position: Who knows...waiting for a bid
Posts: 379
When I emailed my block rep and asked about them changing anything(the STV stuff in particular like 30days or removing it entirely), I was told there was no way that was going to be changed or removed. Then I was assured it would go senior and I would have nothing to worry about.
This LOA is lacking in many aspects, and I stand by everything we've all built upon here, but I think the minority report was dead on. If this LOA is in the slightest bit appealling to you, just think of that junior 75 or bus fo who is going to go away (30-90 days) against their will. The company will have the power to do that with this loa instead of SIBA. Think about yourself, but you also need to think about how this will affect those below you.
Voting NO!
This LOA is lacking in many aspects, and I stand by everything we've all built upon here, but I think the minority report was dead on. If this LOA is in the slightest bit appealling to you, just think of that junior 75 or bus fo who is going to go away (30-90 days) against their will. The company will have the power to do that with this loa instead of SIBA. Think about yourself, but you also need to think about how this will affect those below you.
Voting NO!
07-18-2007, 10:49 PM
#30
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Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Junior
Posts: 280
So, apparently..
From the current info:
I guess the answer would be that anyone stupid enough to bid it under CBA deserves what little it provides. Is that an acceptable position to put ourselves in? Philosophy was not my favorite subject but I can say, we don't have many here who came to Fedex with the full intention to someday live in HKG or Paris under the company's dime. So if that option is taken away from those who expected to be able to do that, well they shouldn't have set themselves up for disappointment.
So we either have a lot of very disappointed new Captains and Int'l FO's, or NOBODY bids it. Is it possible that pilots such as those gluttons for punishment who fly DP's will bid it? Likely.
End result. Most of the vacancies get filled, the company hires into the remainder with pilots who were previously thinking San Juan with American Eagle wouldn't have been so bad. The company ends up with extremely junior pilots and newbies. Not what they wanted. No what we wanted. No one wins.
This whole thing just SUX!!!
- The company won't consider changes.
- We vote it down, the company staffs under the CBA.
- The bid still happens, regardless.
- No Tax Equal?
- Move package # 1 won't apply, not sure why this was mentioned as a give-back, so move package # 2.
- No housing allowance, so won't be able to afford a place big enough to put the 15000 pounds allowed.
- Hong Kong or CAN?
- No STV, just real ugly SIBA's
I guess the answer would be that anyone stupid enough to bid it under CBA deserves what little it provides. Is that an acceptable position to put ourselves in? Philosophy was not my favorite subject but I can say, we don't have many here who came to Fedex with the full intention to someday live in HKG or Paris under the company's dime. So if that option is taken away from those who expected to be able to do that, well they shouldn't have set themselves up for disappointment.
So we either have a lot of very disappointed new Captains and Int'l FO's, or NOBODY bids it. Is it possible that pilots such as those gluttons for punishment who fly DP's will bid it? Likely.
End result. Most of the vacancies get filled, the company hires into the remainder with pilots who were previously thinking San Juan with American Eagle wouldn't have been so bad. The company ends up with extremely junior pilots and newbies. Not what they wanted. No what we wanted. No one wins.
This whole thing just SUX!!!
Last edited by Fr8doggie; 07-18-2007 at 10:50 PM. Reason: typo
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