Show me the openers!!
07-25-2007, 05:33 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 500
Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r
I don't see this LOA as a step backwards, because the company can do it now. If anyone thinks the current CBA language is better, they still have that option under the LOA with the addition of Tax equalization.
Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r
While our SCOPE language concerning extra territorial flying outside our borders is vastly more complex and "Iffy" in the US courts, I feel any language we can get to define the flying as "OURS" is extremely important and should not be taken lightly. Is this language a step backwards? Our ALPA RLA attorneys apparently don't think so, and neither do I.
Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r
Now while I agree and have previously stated so, the Housing allowance is LOW, but again it is more than we currently have.
Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r
The STV clause is what seems to have most folks up in arms. The Recent FCIF just clarified and alleviated my fear of being forced there for 90 days. Being forced there for a month isn't the end of the world. Quite frankly with the month limit, it will probably go more senior similar to SIBA and there won't be too many involuntary inversions IMHO.
07-25-2007, 10:14 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,191
Originally Posted by Ranger
One thing that bothers me about this relates to the "take it now and we'll fix it with the next contract" approach.
What will we have to give up in order to fix a broken (or seriously flawed) FDA?
What will we have to give up in order to fix a broken (or seriously flawed) FDA?
- Basic raises across the board of 3-5%
- Defending the A Fund (...FDX recently converted all mgt types to "cash balance" plans this spring)
- Defending your ability to retire at Age 60 w/out penalty
All of these issues will cost $$ and negogiating capital.
If we have to go in and "fix" the LOA benefits too then truly ALL 4,800+ pilots at FEDEX will have directly been affected.
Vote "yes" now and "fix it" later is short sighted, lazy and ignorant.
07-25-2007, 10:58 PM
#33
Gets Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Nordskog Industries Field Technician
Posts: 688
Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r
I don't see this LOA as a step backwards, because the company can do it now. If anyone thinks the current CBA language is better, they still have that option under the LOA with the addition of Tax equalization.
The RLA language concerning FDA's is what the UNION wanted 2 contracts ago but couldn't get. Many people don't seem concerned with SCOPE. While I certainly don't claim to be an expert, I know that most ALPA contracts like to have stong SCOPE language to protect ALL their flying. Look at what has happened to NWA, USAir, DAL and UAL. They all were forced to give up most of their domestic scope language in BK courts and have lost a significant amount of their Domestic flying to the regionals forever! They will never get it back!
While our SCOPE language concerning extra territoral flying outside our borders is vastly more complex and "Iffy" in the US courts,
I fel any language we can get to define the flying as "OURS" is extremely important and should not be taken lightly. Is this language a step backwards? Our ALPA RLA attornies apparently don't think so, and niether do I.
Now while I agree and have previously stated so, the Housing allowance is LOW, but again it is more than we currently have.
The STV clause is what seems to have most folks up in arms. The Recent FCIF just clarifed and allieviated my fear of being forced there for 90 days. Being forced there for a month isn't the end of the world. Quite frankly with the month limit, it will probably go more senior similar to SIBA and there won't be too many involuntary inversions IMHO.
Is this A GIANT step forward...............NOT!
but it is hardly a step backwards.
The RLA language concerning FDA's is what the UNION wanted 2 contracts ago but couldn't get. Many people don't seem concerned with SCOPE. While I certainly don't claim to be an expert, I know that most ALPA contracts like to have stong SCOPE language to protect ALL their flying. Look at what has happened to NWA, USAir, DAL and UAL. They all were forced to give up most of their domestic scope language in BK courts and have lost a significant amount of their Domestic flying to the regionals forever! They will never get it back!
While our SCOPE language concerning extra territoral flying outside our borders is vastly more complex and "Iffy" in the US courts,
I fel any language we can get to define the flying as "OURS" is extremely important and should not be taken lightly. Is this language a step backwards? Our ALPA RLA attornies apparently don't think so, and niether do I.
Now while I agree and have previously stated so, the Housing allowance is LOW, but again it is more than we currently have.
The STV clause is what seems to have most folks up in arms. The Recent FCIF just clarifed and allieviated my fear of being forced there for 90 days. Being forced there for a month isn't the end of the world. Quite frankly with the month limit, it will probably go more senior similar to SIBA and there won't be too many involuntary inversions IMHO.
Is this A GIANT step forward...............NOT!
but it is hardly a step backwards.
I may be dim or illiterate but I just don't see these magical scope/RLA benefits everyone is talking about.
07-26-2007, 12:08 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 118
<< Now while I agree and have previously stated so, the Housing allowance is LOW, but again it is more than we currently have. >>
So, say your wife is doing the mailman every Monday. You're not real happy about it, have a few arguments, etc., so she agrees to cut back to just the first Monday of every month. Are you happy with that? Under your reasoning, you should be. What the hell, it's still a 75% improvement over what you had, right?
This "it's better than what we had" mentality is going to kill us. There is no way this P.O.S. LOA was negotiated for all 4,800 pilots; if it had been, there would have been school tuition included for those with kids. Hell, I'm 53, single, childless, and I already live in SFS, and I can't afford to go to HKG under the terms of this LOA. Those of you who think it's a good deal don't seem to realize that the $40K "benefit" (actually, just a partial offset to your start-up costs) will NEVER show up in your pocket. You'll be out-of-pocket thousands of dollars more just to get moved in over there, unless you're willing to live like a college student, which I am not, at this stage of my life. Now, I don't need 2,500 sq.ft., either, but a mattress on the floor over a crack house, next to a ***** house, overlooking a ****-filled alley with a 24-hr. mah jongg game going on, doesn't cut it. And when you read about a 500-sq.ft. studio apartment, remember that in HKG, they count the area from your front door to the elevator, PLUS your outside patio or balcony (if you even have one), in your square footage. So much for having visitors from the U.S. come to stay with you ...
This LOA is a P.O.S. and should be summarily rejected. VOTE NO!!!
So, say your wife is doing the mailman every Monday. You're not real happy about it, have a few arguments, etc., so she agrees to cut back to just the first Monday of every month. Are you happy with that? Under your reasoning, you should be. What the hell, it's still a 75% improvement over what you had, right?
This "it's better than what we had" mentality is going to kill us. There is no way this P.O.S. LOA was negotiated for all 4,800 pilots; if it had been, there would have been school tuition included for those with kids. Hell, I'm 53, single, childless, and I already live in SFS, and I can't afford to go to HKG under the terms of this LOA. Those of you who think it's a good deal don't seem to realize that the $40K "benefit" (actually, just a partial offset to your start-up costs) will NEVER show up in your pocket. You'll be out-of-pocket thousands of dollars more just to get moved in over there, unless you're willing to live like a college student, which I am not, at this stage of my life. Now, I don't need 2,500 sq.ft., either, but a mattress on the floor over a crack house, next to a ***** house, overlooking a ****-filled alley with a 24-hr. mah jongg game going on, doesn't cut it. And when you read about a 500-sq.ft. studio apartment, remember that in HKG, they count the area from your front door to the elevator, PLUS your outside patio or balcony (if you even have one), in your square footage. So much for having visitors from the U.S. come to stay with you ...
This LOA is a P.O.S. and should be summarily rejected. VOTE NO!!!
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