MD11Fr8Dog

Uh, and some Captains too! 3 summers ago, I took two former FedEx Corp pilots (the Capt and FO) west across the Pacific from SFO to NRT. It was like I was doing IOE for these guys!

MaxKts

If you turn down the overhead speakers and hang up your headset you will not sound like an ametuer because you won't be talking to anyone. Yes it has happened

Jetjok

The really nice thing about flying in China, is that their ATC guys transmit in their own language, but talk to you in English (such as it is). So if you hear english being spoken, it's probably directed towards you.

FliFast

With all due respect, International Ops training is a nice way to spend 8 hours receiving 1 hour worth of useful information. Actually having flown to some of these regions, is what UPS was generally looking for when they advertised the requirement of overwater experience. IMHO, if one retains 50% of what is taught in a classroom, I'd be surprised. From my limited international experience, I've found that experiencing the ever-changing nuances first hand, causes more retention and better prepares one for international flying.

Case in point for my friends at the regionals. I could take anyone at your airline and ask them the atis freq. at your hub airport, localizer freq's , localizer course, and decision height, where speed reductions are needed, etc. and each one of you would know it. Then take someone that flies Anchorage to the Pac rim and bring him into your hub airport and he/she is working hard to familiarize themself to the local procedures that ya'll do on a daily basis.

At UPS, the new collective baragining agreement shifts the Relief Officer position (IRO) from Capts to F/O's. Specifically from Captains to newhires. Thus the FAA has suggested strongly, that if you want new hires as IROs, and F/Os on widebody equipment coupled with possibly junior Capts which may have come off a domestic airplane since ANC is our junior base, then you will hire, new-hires with overwater international experience. The FAA has suggested the alternative to that hiring procedure is increased observation and scrutiny of its ANC operation (line checks and ramp checks). So given the choice, would you hire the international widebody captain from another airline or the RJ captain and risk the FAA giving that person (and their crew) a line check based on training they received back in Louisville. This isnt a slam on anyone's background, I have almost 5 years at the regionals myself. It's just the way UPS and the FAA are running ANC flights based on what they negotiated in the latest contract.

FliFast

So this isnt a slam of any nature, just a business plan

MD11Fr8Dog

Uh, same for France!

15789

FliFast, the intent of my post was not to challenge the policy at UPS regarding the international ops training, or for that matter the requirement for international over water experience. I agree that having both is a definite benefit to UPS, especially in light of the territories that are flown over during these operations.

My post was misunderstood(you can't really represent sarcasim(sp) or inference with the written word), as it was a response to Packer Backer's jab at regional pilots as being inept seat warmers(or at least that is how I interpreted it). My company has a lot of pilots that are serving or have rotated out of those hot zones, in air combat roles, and his statement led me to believe that he views us(regional pilots) as UnSat in our abilities or vigilance. Train us and watch what we can accomplish-that was the gist of my post.

RogAir

The hardest part of Int'l flying is the language barrier--you have to know ahead of time what you expect to hear and hope they say something remotely similar. After 15 years of Int'l flying and visiting every continent, there are still radio calls that I find myself and the other pilot looking at each other and saying "****". And if you are from the South, just forget it.

CactusCrew

Dang strait,

that ICAO don't cover the southern edition of English ...

Know what i mean ??

FliFast

15789,
I get the gist of your post. As a former Regional pilot with old Cactus Crew, for a good many years; I know exactly how hard it is to do that job...crummy hotels, no food, stand-ups...should I go on ? Undeniably, flying at the Regionals is demanding.

Don't get me wrong, I understand you position of "train us and watch our progress". A valid argument, but remember there are already thousands of applicants out there that are already trained and experienced...that's the gist of my response...no offense intended.

As far as the other comments, I have the utmost respect and appreciation for the folks that have served our Country: past, present, future...period.
However, at UPS we don't fly to hot zones, we don't do Aerial Refueling, I've never heard (yet), "UPS 3-4, going tactical with a flight of three MD11s"...except maybe at the bar.

We work at a worldwide freight airline, flying transport category jets...those are the only toys we have to play with.

Cactus, I know whatcha mean, Vern....the other day in Hong Kong, I told the controller, "We is fixin to land"...and he said, the runway doesn't need fixin, but if you break it, you buy it. Now that, 15789, is a good example of international experience. (sarcasm costs extra).

FF