I think we all did lose on this one. Even if you are somebody that this will not affect in the near future, it sets a very bad precedent.


-We got lowballed and took the offer. I doubt that things will be changed in future negotiations (STV, tax equal, move package, etc.)

-The Union did a bad job communicating, educating themselves on what was needed, educating us on all aspects of the LOA, sending threatening and demeaning emails, etc. That is bad enough! Worse though, is the Company sat back, watched the show, had a few chuckles, and said....what a bunch of lemmings/schmucks. So much for Union cohesion.....Divided and Conquered! I dont ever think we, as a group, are ever going to grow some nads. Always worrying about what the company will do if we vote no is pathetic.

-The current FDA folks feel like they were lied to. How? Last negotiations the FDA contract items needed improvement, but didnt get it. We had our chance here and blew it. You think next time it will improve much? I dont see it happening. The Company is going to make a killing with STV; in more ways than one.



I am all for majority rules. I would just like to think that the majority read and analyzed the LOA, asked Qs and got appropriate answers, and fully understood what they were voting on. But, I dont think that is the case with most. With so many "vagaries" in the language.......it was impossible to make a fully informed decision for a yes vote. I think the MEC emails had to much of a "vote yes or else" tone to them. And, I am not a sore loser. I just feel that we damaged ourselves as a group. Thats what hurts. Maybe I am wrong....time will tell.

As far as the SFS folks go, we all have known that Subic was closing, and our "great deal" was going to be over. I would guess that most dont feel they got the "shaft" so to speak. Except maybe for the comments by DW and the fact that no SFS input was solicited.

Time to take a de/re-programming class so I can easily assimilate back into the MEM world!

Somehow VEBA was not an issue that affects the whole group - oh I guess when you look at the ages of the MEC it might matter to them.

The PSIT getting their trip removal increased to 30 CH per month from 24 CH per month (for 3.5 days of line building) when there is no record of anyone ever having left the PSIT due to the 24 CH number being too low. This was an issue that affected the group as a whole - oh, no maybe not - but the guys on Kirby thought it warrranted using precious negotiating capital?

Hmmmm... As far as I know, there's no record of a pilot leaving FedEx because the pay was too low either. Are you suggesting we shouldn't have spent negotiating capital on improving pay rates?

I have no problem with the PSIT getting an additional day of trip removal on our dime... currently (IMO) one of the best values for the dues dollar in ALPA.

I could not imagine what our bid packs would look like without the SIG/PSIT.

Give them cake......

It's time to hide and watch. See who bids the FDA's or who gets coerced into it as a new hire.

I too was in the AOC two days prior to the end of the vote. I was working on a computer and overheard 3 older guys next to me. One started out saying how he was voting for it because the MEC says the LOA is good so it's got to be good. The other 2 agreed with him. There was no discussion on any elements of the LOA.

I hope we get some good feedback from the pilots who end up over there. Not that it will do any good..........we have a signed, binding LOA. There is no incentive whatsoever for the company to change anything. But hearing from the pilots living over there will tell us the facts. Is the van ride 5 hours? How much did it cost to store your household goods? What does the apt. building look like where you live? Where is it located? What is the square footage? How much money down to get the keys? How are the lines? Etc. :confused:

Not on his take home pay.:eek:

I happen to know that the PSIT work is largely volunteer, there are guys who put in hour upon hour and never get any trip removal. PSIT members only get trip removal in a month they actually build, but all PSIT guys participate in hours of preparation every month. Trip removal in no way should be the primary reason to work on the PSIT, flying line trips and getting full pay is much smarter !

Keep your eye on the ball, as the other posts have surmised the Optomizer is ready to further make things worse.

If any of you out there are actually considering going to an FDA. I would DEMAND the Company provide sample pairings and schedules BEFORE the bid closes. Can you say out and backs, 4 leg nights.... in Europe. FUN.

Night out and backs in Europe would actually be day flights Melvis time sooo... this is a good deal right? :D:D

Just one more added benefit of the LOA! :rolleyes:

No...but he could play the banjo in one of the Metro stations and make.....what?......20-25 euros a day?

and then.... reality set in.


"Please stand by, mon ami, while I make sure none of my several roommates are sponge-bathing in the common area.

Ah, I see the coast is clear. No, please, come in. Would you care for a cracker and some cooking sherry?

I must say, your eyes look quite lovely in the glow of the trash fires. I'm sorry, what was that again? I could not quite make it out over the police sirens.

But you cannot leave yet! I 'ave already paid your bar fine!"


:D