When does the 18-month "seat lock" apply?

For example, if a 727 SO upgrades to 727 FO is he "seat locked" for 18-months and thus prevented from bidding 757 FO until 18 months after being activated...

...OR...

...does the "seat lock" only apply for someone who is currently a 727 FO, who then trains and is activated as a 757 FO, thus preventing them from bidding widebody FO until 18 months after being activated?

I'm hearing two different versions from guys on the line, and also hearing the company is currently taking the first interpretation presented above.

 

I think it applies laterals and downbids.. I know there is no lock on the way up.. I did panel, right seat boeing, then bus... All in under 2 years...

 

don't believe you get seat locked going to new equip or base either -- i am too lazy to get you a reference from the contract.

 

As a previous poster said, the Lock applies to Laterals bids and downbids ( DC-10 FO to MD-11 FO for example) or A300 Capt to MD-11 Capt. Or very JR 727 CAP to senior MD-11 FO.

There is NO seat lock for and Upgrade, 727SO to 727FO then to MD-11 FO as each seat is a upgrade.

If a person just finished training and a new domicile bid or new Aircraft comes out like the FDA and 757 BID, the company can choose to waive any Freeze. In other words if you just Finished 727 Cap school and wanted to BID 757 CAP you would probably be allowed but now you would be frozen on the 757 for 2 years.

 

Thanks for the replies...the case you outline above is very clear, with most folks at FEDEX going this route.

What's new, and in question, is the 727 SO to 727 FO to 757 FO route --- when does the "seat lock" occur?

...after the upgrade to 727 FO? (i.e. you can't bid "laterally" to a 757 FO slot for 18 months, only "upward" to a wide-body FO slot)

OR

...after the "lateral upgrade" from 727 FO to 757 FO.

Without 2 narrow-body aircraft I don't believe we've had this situation before, but perhaps there was a precedence from pilots moving laterally between widebody FO seats or between widebody Capt seats within 18 months of being activated.

Thanks.

 

After the lateral or downbid.. (ie.. in your example, after 727FO activates as 757FO) Or at least that is my interpretation...

 

This is when I miss "old TonyC", he would have already posted the applicable paragraph from the contract and the conversation would be over. The rest of us are just too lazy

 

Good point and Yes I am too lazy.. Just ask my wife!

The good news is I did see Tony in the AOC about a week or so ago so he is alive and well...

 

This is the applicable part of the CBA

"Section 24 E. 1.

b. Down/Lateral Bid Restriction

Unless waived by the Vice President, Flight Operations, or his designee, a pilot may not receive a permanent vacancy award based on a down/lateral bid unless he has been in his current crew status for at least 18 months.

c. Down/Lateral Bid Freeze

A pilot who is activated in a crew status that requires ITU training based on a down/lateral bid shall be frozen in that crew status for 24 months, commencing on his actual activation date. A pilot is not eligible for a permanent crew position award requiring ITU training with a projected training date during that freeze period except under the following conditions:

i. the pilot was excessed or down/lateral bid to relieve an excess; or

ii. the pilot down bid because of legal restrictions."

So, as I read it, you must be on the 72 for 18 months before being awarded the same seat on the 75. However, if you were awarded the seat on the just completed posting, you either have the time, or it was waived by VP Flt Ops. Once activated, you will have a 24 month freeze if the assignment was a lateral or downbid, although being in an FDA and signing the Letter of Aggreement makes the freeze problematic, as you'll be there at least 24 months.

 

According to what was enforced on this bid....

You may not bid 757 FO if there is a bid that has a CLOSING DATE within 18 months of your activation date on the 727 as an FO (Finish IOE.)

That is what locked out a lot of 727 FO's from this bid. Even though the training date is 1 year away from the bid award, the company goes by the BID closing date as the seat-lock date.

Confused yet?

You activate as a 727FO on 01Jan08. You may not bid 757FO on any bid that closes before 01July09. However, you may bid MD11FO or A300FO at anytime.

And then, don't forget, if you do get that 757FO position, you will then be seat locked for 24 months after you finish 757FO IOE, which could in itself be a year away, before you can bid ANYTHING else.

I would think once a 727FO, a 757FO move is not so much a good deal as you would think.