Subic,

exactly how is the union supposed to find out about these good deals the training department is setting up with mgt if nobody tells them.....until late in the game.

Until all of this exploded, I hadn't heard a single rumor about POP, a super secret handshake of bidding CDG and not having to go over at all, 2yr contract doesn't apply to you-the mighty flex guy.

And, I have to say that I am upset at the mindset of needing a "special" qual guy to setup the whole 757 training department. While I haven't done the training gig for FedEx, I, and numerous of my fellow line swine pilots, have tons of Instructor Experience. Really wouldn't be that big a deal for me to learn the systems of a new plane and try and train folks how to shoot an ILS in the 757 versus the plane they came from. Highlight the differences in the INS/FMS software. Expose them to the gotcha's inherent in the system. Especially given that the lesson plan and how to's are all written down for me.

Shoot, there were a few occasions going through training when I wanted to hop out of the seat and run the setup myself. Did it enough in the FTD at the self-paced level and it is the same software driving the sims.

Hard to believe folks are upset with the union when mgt balked at actually writing things down on paper

 

Kronan,

I think you've missed the point here. Sure, most of us have had a stint as an instructor sometime in our career and could/should take on that role here at FedEx. When you say "given that the lesson plan and how to's are all written down for me" just where do you think that lesson plan comes from? You think that stuff is just lying around or can be picked up at Target on the clearance isle? Having been through a couple of training courses here at FDX (one that sucked and another that was really good) I realized that somebody had done a lot of work to make the good one what it was. And it must have been somebody with some experience.

For the 757 (and one day the 777) I hope they pick the best of those guys working in the schoolhouse to make a decent program. I sure don't want to go through another bad course.

 

I am not an expert or insider. But, I would guess that you could count the 727 IP's who are not eligible for Passover pay on one hand. And I see that a few of the IP's in question are actually from the 727 school house. Most, but not all of these guys were already on WB Passover. I'm sure that somebody will hit me in the head with the exact number in just a minute.

If I knew how to do multiple quotes, I would. But someone else mentioned that the IP's "worked a deal" and expected the Company and Union to work out the details later. Considering "Past Precedent", I don't think these guys were too far off base.

Think about it. If you were offered a 757 school slot a year ago. And the plane wasn't scheduled to arrive in any numbers until mid 2008; wouldn't we all surmise that a year or two on the gravy train might be possible? They took their chances on the company promise, but it evidently turned into a "Bait and Switch". Good on those guys for deciding on a course of action and sticking together.

Eventually all of this will all get worked out. No thanks to DW.

 

First I would like to say that the 757 instructors were not trying to get some kind of sweet deal. They simply were trying to get clarification of what they could expect. I believe that any of you would consider that to be prudent, as opposed to one day waking up and finding out that you just took a $40,000 a year pay cut and had to pay back thousands of dollars in POP. (By the way the old contract did not require the repayment of POP if you should elect to down bid) It is very naïve to think that the program could be stood up without people that already had experience as a LCA or Flex at this company. It takes a year to get someone completely qualified as a Flex and probably another six months before they get really good at it. By having people that the FAA has already observed and worked with on other airplanes it makes it much easier and smoother for the FAA to sign off on stuff. Regardless if the FAA required it or not, it was wise to stand it up with individuals that were a known quantity, in that, you could examine there past performance and make an informed decision as to the quality of their work. Now having established the wisdom in standing the program up the way it is, I must say it would be asinine to expect people who were receiving wide body pay to take a pay cut down to narrow body pay. I believe that 99% of all narrow body LCAs and front end Flexes are receiving wide body pay. So where were you supposed to get the LCAs and Flexes? They did post for those positions and some of the people that were hired were given very little time to decide whether or not they wanted to join the program. What is wrong with them asking for clarification on issues that would affect them? Those issues would be: Will I still be paid the POP that I am currently receiving, how long of a commitment is it, and so on. Now, concerning a Flex biding a Captain position in Paris and then receiving POP for it. That is allowed under our new contract. The old contract would only trigger POP if someone junior to you checked out in the contiguous 48 states. The new contract removed that wording so that POP can be triggered by someone junior to you in any base (assuming you had bid that seat in that base). Weather or not they would be forced to go to Paris at the end of 2 years would be up to the training manager. If the individual is an excellent instructor than they would probably want to keep them. If the individual was weak or they were fat on instructors than off he goes to Paris, unless there was another bid that he could have moved on.

Many have expressed concern that these flexes did not work closely with the union. Well let me ask you this. Lets say you just purchased a house and you have foundation problems. You hire a lawyer who is worthless and sells you down the river. Then you buy a car and it has problems. You use the same lawyer and he performs the same way. How many times would you continue to use him as your advocate? Most of us would tell you that you were crazy the second time you went back to him let alone a third and forth. Yet you expect the flexes to do just that.
The flexes were sold down the river in section 11 of our current contract. Then we were all sold down the river on age 60. Then again on the retroactive issues of age 60. Then again on the LOA. HOW MANY TIMES WOULD YOU ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE BITTEN BEFORE YOU NO LONGER SUBJECT YOURELF TO THE SOURCE OF THE PAIN????????????????

 

Excellent post, Purple...

I guess now I don't have to reply!

 

I'm tracking with pretty much everything that you wrote. The only thing I don't quite understand is the "flexes sold down the river on sec. 11" thing. Is this the old argument about flex pay vs. LCA pay?

 

That and the loss of fly days...

 

And just where is the reset button for the LCA's?

 

That arguement hold exactly zero water in my book. By the same logic, we should pay line pilots more than flexes because of the inherent danger associated with flying. Granted, LCA's have to be vigilant, but not much more than a regular captain flying with a new first officer, or a tired first officer, or a first officer who is about ready to go non-current...etc...

IMHO, you could justify paying LCA's a little more, but taking it away from flexes to give it to LCA's was a bad move.

 

I don’t want to spend to much time talking about section 11, but there were about 6 things in there that were a reduction in pay, quality of life, and credibility. Isn’t it amazing that they say the Flexes don’t have credibility and then they take away their fly days. That
was their one way of maintaining credibility when the training was so busy that their manager would not let them out to fly the line.
Concerning pay, the override pay rates for flexes are the same as they were 19 years ago.
I know, that when I go thru training, I want the best teacher, instructor that they can find. How do you attract those individuals? By making the job attractive thur incentives such as pay and QOL. For example, I have flown with Captains that would make excellent LCAs. However they are unwilling to take it on due to the significant increased risk without significant increase in pay. Weren’t some of our accidents situations where an LCA was dealing with a problem student?
Also with greater responsibility comes greater reward. Why does Fred Smith make so much? Well he started the company, assumed most of the risk and now is responsible for decisions that affect the pay check of 250,000 people. Why does PC make more than the average line guy? Because his decisions affect 4700 pilots and all of flight ops. Why should an LCA make more than an average line pilot? Because, he or she shapes and maintains the standard and quality of an entire fleet, not just getting a single airplane from A to B
Now, just because a flex has a reset button does not mean he does not have a great deal of responsibility or that he does not have to work very hard. A lot of you seem to think it is just some cush job. If that is true why don’t you apply for it. The fact is that a Flex basically has to be ready to take an oral every day .They have students sitting in front of them that could ask absolutely anything. They also have a great deal of prep to prepare for an event. For example you may be scheduled to teach an FTD that you haven’t taught for 4 or 5 months. Also when giving PCs and PT you may have to make a call to unsat someone. That certainly is not fun because even though there are clear standards you know that you are negatively affecting someone’s career. What about a student that shows up unprepared or just isn’t getting it? There can be a great deal of extra time spent with students to help them successfully complete the program.
Also, concerning section 11. Did you know that the new contract allows for a reserve pilot to be called in to fly support for sims. The old contract had a specific order they had to go thru to fill sim support requirements. There were about 3 steps that had to be met before it was even offered to a reserve. If they couldn’t find a reserve to volunteer they could assign it to a reserve but only with approval of the VP of flight ops on a case by case basis. So let’s say its your type ride and they call in some guy that just got off vacation and hasn’t opened a book in several weeks. Is that who you want supporting you or your type ride or PC, or would you rather have an instructor who knows the script and can help you if you falter?
Not only that but you could fly an a.m. out and back and then call scheduling (as required) and they can then assign you a sim support event even though you want nothing more than to go to bed. The opposite is true. If you are assigned support you could then be assigned a trip right after the completion of the sim. So wear your uniform and bring an overnight bag to the sim.