Someone who gets it..
12-23-2007, 03:59 AM
#71
"blue collar thug"!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A proponent of...
Posts: 1,614
Originally Posted by 767pilot
Nothing personal, but look at the major people haulers. You haven't come CLOSE to having your pension stolen
12-23-2007, 04:13 AM
#72
Trust but Verify!!
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: MD11 CRA
Posts: 684
"FDD,
While I agree/enjoy most of your posts I disagee with your stance on military retirees. Probably because I am about to be one myself, and not by choice. But what you need to understand is that I don't just 'want' another retirement check, I NEED it. THere is no way I can live the rest of my life on $2200 a month takehome."
Thanks Moon and I am sorry if I generalized too much. Some of my best friends are military retirees both in the airlines and working in other fields. In fact, my Dad is a military retiree who had no options when he retired as an LTC with over 10,000 hours of flying, much of it in Vietnam. Airlines just wouldn't hire guys over 40 back then. Anyway, he is doing fine. Not living the high life but certainly middle class by any standard. Anyway, he would have loved to had a chance to fly in the airlines for as long as they would have let him, without pushing for an Age 60 change. Many of the military retirees that are hired now see this job as their entitlement and flying past Age 60 as a right just because they came here late after securing another retirement. Anyway, if I sound annoyed it is because since pilots in my Dad's time frame could not get hired as military retirees, I think those hired now should understand they are lucky enough to have the chance many of those that fought in Vietnam didn't. To push for flying longer so they can make even more, or look for sympathy because they stayed in the military knowing that they would have to retire at 60 and wanted to fly longer for a better retirement is, as I said, disingenuous. I do wish you the best though and apologize for coming across against military retirees in general. It's the ones who have been whining about Age 60 and put money into APAAD I was targeting. Have a merry Christmas and hope to see you on board soon!
While I agree/enjoy most of your posts I disagee with your stance on military retirees. Probably because I am about to be one myself, and not by choice. But what you need to understand is that I don't just 'want' another retirement check, I NEED it. THere is no way I can live the rest of my life on $2200 a month takehome."
Thanks Moon and I am sorry if I generalized too much. Some of my best friends are military retirees both in the airlines and working in other fields. In fact, my Dad is a military retiree who had no options when he retired as an LTC with over 10,000 hours of flying, much of it in Vietnam. Airlines just wouldn't hire guys over 40 back then. Anyway, he is doing fine. Not living the high life but certainly middle class by any standard. Anyway, he would have loved to had a chance to fly in the airlines for as long as they would have let him, without pushing for an Age 60 change. Many of the military retirees that are hired now see this job as their entitlement and flying past Age 60 as a right just because they came here late after securing another retirement. Anyway, if I sound annoyed it is because since pilots in my Dad's time frame could not get hired as military retirees, I think those hired now should understand they are lucky enough to have the chance many of those that fought in Vietnam didn't. To push for flying longer so they can make even more, or look for sympathy because they stayed in the military knowing that they would have to retire at 60 and wanted to fly longer for a better retirement is, as I said, disingenuous. I do wish you the best though and apologize for coming across against military retirees in general. It's the ones who have been whining about Age 60 and put money into APAAD I was targeting. Have a merry Christmas and hope to see you on board soon!
12-23-2007, 04:26 PM
#74
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 68
In reply to FreightDawgydog,
Having never been in the Military and of shallow intelligence, I could have gone either way on the military retirees issue but after reading that last post, I gotta say "I never thought of it like that" and it was very well said. Merry Christmas to you and your Dad.
Having never been in the Military and of shallow intelligence, I could have gone either way on the military retirees issue but after reading that last post, I gotta say "I never thought of it like that" and it was very well said. Merry Christmas to you and your Dad.
12-25-2007, 09:32 PM
#75
On Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: BOHICA
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by MEMFO4Ever
I don't know about being hypocrites, since I fully expect the company will reduce the A fund multiplier and the B fund contribution. I can already hear the concession-speech message line from the MEC and NC now. The anti-change crowd will be coerced into working longer than age 60 just to recoup what they could have gotten under the old rules. It is naive to infer that the company will not take this advantage; they will. Their charge is to maximize shareholder wealth, not enhance the financial position of pilots.
This change is bad for everyone, except the guys that can fly the extra years under the current CBA. I personally do not think that our current situation will stand the next attack from management and their mongrel lawyers during Section 6.
I do not WANT to work longer (I don't know why anyone does), but I fear that I will have to, just to achieve the same financial outcome I see retired guys getting now.
This change is bad for everyone, except the guys that can fly the extra years under the current CBA. I personally do not think that our current situation will stand the next attack from management and their mongrel lawyers during Section 6.
I do not WANT to work longer (I don't know why anyone does), but I fear that I will have to, just to achieve the same financial outcome I see retired guys getting now.
12-26-2007, 04:14 PM
#77
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 777 FO
Posts: 931
Originally Posted by Yoke Actuator
Believe it or not, its more than a job and a fat paycheck to some. I've seen a lot of captain's have to move to the back seat long before they were ready/willing just because they turned 60. Just some food for thought.
12-26-2007, 05:20 PM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 424
Yoke,
For the life of me, I can't imagine doing this for fun. A great job, but certainly not fun. It IS totally about the money. But if some want to work for 1/2 pay (Todays pay - retirement check they aren't getting) and maybe never collect a retirement check, so be it. At least the retirement fund remains more solvent that way...
For the life of me, I can't imagine doing this for fun. A great job, but certainly not fun. It IS totally about the money. But if some want to work for 1/2 pay (Todays pay - retirement check they aren't getting) and maybe never collect a retirement check, so be it. At least the retirement fund remains more solvent that way...
12-27-2007, 08:06 AM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: 57 Capt
Posts: 141
Originally Posted by nightfreight
Yoke,
For the life of me, I can't imagine doing this for fun. A great job, but certainly not fun. It IS totally about the money. But if some want to work for 1/2 pay (Todays pay - retirement check they aren't getting) and maybe never collect a retirement check, so be it. At least the retirement fund remains more solvent that way...
For the life of me, I can't imagine doing this for fun. A great job, but certainly not fun. It IS totally about the money. But if some want to work for 1/2 pay (Todays pay - retirement check they aren't getting) and maybe never collect a retirement check, so be it. At least the retirement fund remains more solvent that way...
60 to 65....5 yrs @ 125k per year (A fund) = $625,000. Then, you die earlier and don't take as many A fund payments anyway.
Maybe the company won't go after the A fund after all.
instead of working till you die, just try GETTING A LIFE!!
12-27-2007, 09:29 PM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: MD-11
Posts: 395
JJ:
You have missed the entire point!
This law wasn't something that "just happened." It was lobbied for by the very guys who were suppose to represent the entire crew force, and by a "union" [sic] that just effectively robbed its junior members for the benefit of its very senior members. Totally UNSAT!
Every ALPA member under the age of 55 has a damn good right to be upset at both ALPA national and DW and his cohorts. An entire industry has just screwed its own members using themembers' own money. Now if you're 60, you could call it ingenious. but if you're less than 60 (paticulalry less than 55) it's just plain criminal!
If this crew force doesn't throw ALPA off the property for good, than they will just get more of the same Bowel Movement!
You have missed the entire point!
This law wasn't something that "just happened." It was lobbied for by the very guys who were suppose to represent the entire crew force, and by a "union" [sic] that just effectively robbed its junior members for the benefit of its very senior members. Totally UNSAT!
Every ALPA member under the age of 55 has a damn good right to be upset at both ALPA national and DW and his cohorts. An entire industry has just screwed its own members using themembers' own money. Now if you're 60, you could call it ingenious. but if you're less than 60 (paticulalry less than 55) it's just plain criminal!
If this crew force doesn't throw ALPA off the property for good, than they will just get more of the same Bowel Movement!
