FDX-contract improvements next negotiations
#182
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
My post concerning pay raises, was just an attempt to find some "ade", for the non-captains, in the friggin' lemon that was delivered to ALL of us, last December.
I wasn't attempting to say what is right or wrong.
But, now that it has been brought up...Out of our 4700 pilots, we have over 2200 captains at FDX. Or nearly half. With the retirement of 3 man airplanes...That percentage will continue to grow. Until, the majority of our pilots are captains.
So rather than negotiate larger raises for just 50% of us(F/Os)...It would seem logical that we would want to negotiate raises for everyone. And, except for guys like NMB, nearly everyone would enjoy the fruits of those raises. F/O's would get theirs now and when we have seat progression again, they'll also enjoy the raised captain's rates.
#183
But, now that it has been brought up...Out of our 4700 pilots, we have over 2200 captains at FDX. Or nearly half. With the retirement of 3 man airplanes...That percentage will continue to grow. Until, the majority of our pilots are captains.
So rather than negotiate larger raises for just 50% of us(F/Os)...It would seem logical that we would want to negotiate raises for everyone. And, except for guys like NMB, nearly everyone would enjoy the fruits of those raises. F/O's would get theirs now and when we have seat progression again, they'll also enjoy the raised captain's rates.
So rather than negotiate larger raises for just 50% of us(F/Os)...It would seem logical that we would want to negotiate raises for everyone. And, except for guys like NMB, nearly everyone would enjoy the fruits of those raises. F/O's would get theirs now and when we have seat progression again, they'll also enjoy the raised captain's rates.
In fact, if hired after 40, it means more time as FO than as CA if you leave around 60.
With my assumption, which is opposed to your assumption that one is hired much younger, the FO pay raise is more important than the CA pay raise.
#184
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
Yah, you're right. I'm assuming that the average age of a new hire here is younger than 40. I don't think that is a stretch.
My assumption is that "the average pilot" is going to spend some part of his career in the left seat. Hopefully, still a majority.
I'm also assuming that somewhere near 100% of our captains are not going to be F/Os, again. And, they're eligible to vote on contracts.
Just trying to be a realist.
My assumption is that "the average pilot" is going to spend some part of his career in the left seat. Hopefully, still a majority.
I'm also assuming that somewhere near 100% of our captains are not going to be F/Os, again. And, they're eligible to vote on contracts.
Just trying to be a realist.
#185
Busboy,
I would like to encourage you to avoid the "Pull the ladder up" mentality that is behind your assumptions. I don't blame you for that thought process. After all, it is ALPA policy. Telling us a big CA raise will "trickle down" is just that, trickle down economics. The irony of that is not lost on me since ALPA is Democratic candidate leaning and not Republican.
That attitude has left training pay at FDX at 2K a month. It also led to the weak LOA and, earlier, to MD11 gains above all else in the last contract.
I would like to encourage you to avoid the "Pull the ladder up" mentality that is behind your assumptions. I don't blame you for that thought process. After all, it is ALPA policy. Telling us a big CA raise will "trickle down" is just that, trickle down economics. The irony of that is not lost on me since ALPA is Democratic candidate leaning and not Republican.
That attitude has left training pay at FDX at 2K a month. It also led to the weak LOA and, earlier, to MD11 gains above all else in the last contract.
#187
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
I'm not "pulling up the ladder".
I'm just trying to use logic, rather than emotion. I didn't say anything about a big captain raise. Others have spoken of a big F/O raise.
But, whatever...
I'm just trying to use logic, rather than emotion. I didn't say anything about a big captain raise. Others have spoken of a big F/O raise.
But, whatever...
#188
Sorry, I type something in then edit to make it look cleaner. Usually not content.
I'm just talking about the old assumption that any improvement for FO must originate as a percentage of any improvement for CA's.
UPS broke that mold....
I'm just talking about the old assumption that any improvement for FO must originate as a percentage of any improvement for CA's.
UPS broke that mold....
#189
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,068
Nah, I don' know either. I assume that there will be a survey from the NC along with input from meetings, e-mail, etc to gain some sort of consensus
on what the group wants conceptually on all issues including pay. I was just trying to say that among other reasons, without that info it's kind of hard for us to talk pay rates effectively.
I wasn't attempting to say what is right or wrong.
I know. I tried to make that clear in my post, perhaps I didn't.
So rather than negotiate larger raises for just 50% of us(F/Os)...It would seem logical that we would want to negotiate raises for everyone.
Absolutely, I haven't heard anyone that supports just raising FO pay rates although I'm sure they're out there! I think what some people are advocating would probably lead to some 'uneven' non-inflationary pay raise percentages between the seats at certain YOS, but not a raise for one group at the complete exclusion of another. Was that a mouthful!
I still think the bigger picture is that however we frame this issue it really seems like it has the potential for some 'crabs in a barrel' fun before we even get to things like the optimizer, retirement, health care, etc....
on what the group wants conceptually on all issues including pay. I was just trying to say that among other reasons, without that info it's kind of hard for us to talk pay rates effectively.
I wasn't attempting to say what is right or wrong.
I know. I tried to make that clear in my post, perhaps I didn't.
So rather than negotiate larger raises for just 50% of us(F/Os)...It would seem logical that we would want to negotiate raises for everyone.
Absolutely, I haven't heard anyone that supports just raising FO pay rates although I'm sure they're out there! I think what some people are advocating would probably lead to some 'uneven' non-inflationary pay raise percentages between the seats at certain YOS, but not a raise for one group at the complete exclusion of another. Was that a mouthful!
I still think the bigger picture is that however we frame this issue it really seems like it has the potential for some 'crabs in a barrel' fun before we even get to things like the optimizer, retirement, health care, etc....
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