This came from our D.O. today............

Fantasy time over...... back to the real world............
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Folks, I never cease to be amazed at the energy and creativity of the "Post-Christmas Season/1st Quarter Slowdown" rumor-generating phenomena which overtakes us at this time of the year with such predictable regularity, and of late on an almost diurnal basis. If some people did not take this stuff so seriously, it would truly have some genuine entertainment value. But, alas, there are apparently those among us who constantly "see dead people" in some quadrant of their minds, and lose whatever firmness of grip they might have once had on the reality bird as it flies away from them into the far reaches of the big blue sky above.
Now, I fully recognize that craziness does have its benefits, and the Seinfeld-esque mantra, "Not that there's anything wrong with that..." might possibly apply. But it applies only for those who are themselves the crazy ones. The rest of the world must endure the resultant pandemonium our somewhat crazy brethren create by their flights of fantasy.
So, in an effort to reduce that pandemonium, let's cut to the chase and get to the meat of this season's rants and rumors, shall we? First, Gemini has not been, is not being, and will not be sold to FedEx/UPS/Atlas/World/YourNameHere under any circumstances currently envisioned, foreseeable, or discussed. So gee whiz folks, can we puh-leeze give that particular recurr

 

Then we can take this as proof that someone is about to announce the purchase of Gemini

 

Gotta satisfy the SEC, right? Just following the rules, keep the media guessing.

 

Really, what does UPS get from Gemini...pretty much nothing. They don't own any routes, and we can buy 4 more MD-11's from somebody without all the baggage of integrating seniority lists. I had always heard that there were alot of scabs at Challenge Air....anybody familiar with Challenge care to comment? I was always curious why the Challenge Air guys did'nt fight too hard to integrate with UPS?

 

B757er

I have a question concerning your comment about fair play and how it relates to integrating seniority lists etc. Why do you feel that since your airline is bought up by another, the buying airline has the duty to integrate the bought pilots in a "fair" way. I'm not against it, and in a perfect world it would be fair, but I think back to TWA/American. No self respecting pilot with any credentials and qualifications would have applied to TWA from 1995 till the buy-out. So essentially all these guys that couldn't get hired at American/Delta/United etc settle for TWA and then demand they be integrated based on date of hire!!! its like winning the lottery. I interviewed at TWA in 1994, and there were guys in my group who had 1500 hrs total time! and only a few hundred turbine/jet...the pay was embarrasing, and I went just for the interview practice because I would have lost money working for Them...I have nothing against Gemini, a few friends of mine work there, but if UPS or Fed-Ex buys you guys I would think you'd be happy about that even if you lose your Capt position You'd make more as an F/O.. I know I 'd be happy about it.

 

Vito---

I completely disagree with your comments. I'm not Gemini, I was TWA. Over 80% of our pilots never applied at AA and certainly did'nt want to work there. I know I did'nt.

Out of 2,400 TWA pilots, only 495 are left at AA; out of 22,500 TWA employees, only 1500 are left at AA. It was---hands down---the most inequitable, most lop-sided, and most destructive integration of employees in airline labor history. I was there; I lived it.

So, in reference to your comments about UPS/FedEx buying Gemini, and taking only aircraft and no employees, or placing all Gemini pilots at the bottom of your seniority list---I disagree with it, and I have historical reasons, not to mention professional, fair ones, for thinking that way.

One last comment regarding your "Be happy if you lose your Captain seat if you're an F/O making more money...": That has to be the worst part of integrating, losing your hard-earned Captain seat. BUT, I ask you this: WHAT good is a raise if you're FURLOUGHED? That was my experience.

I stand for integrating employees FAIRLY; not allowing one larger group to slaughter the other, or either group to decide the integration.

The ONLY fair, equitable way to decide pilot seniority integration is neutral, third-party binding arbitration. The AA pilots fought tooth-and-nail to deny us this right; they knew it would be fair. They did'nt want that---they wanted to get rid of us.

 

What goes around comes around. At some point, AA will be on the defensive and the acquiring pilot group will have no mercy. Sadly, if its later rather than sooner, the (AA) pilots hosed will not be the ones who benefited by their injustice to (there acquired pilots) but the junior guy's who came after and must live with the legacy that AA bestowed on them.

 

757Er,

I sympathize with your plight, but I'm also very familar with TWA..I was hired there in 95, but turned them down..The pay was an insult, I still remember at my interview, 2 commuter types in my group were talking about the payscales, one of them says "If I get hired here, I'm buying a new car" I told them "If I get hired here, I'll have to sell my car!" 7th year F/O pay was $39,ooo year!!! TWA was the Titanic and the AA buyout was the rescue ship..You guys hit the lottery when AA bought you up until 9-11. There was no way TWA could have made it through 9-11!!! I owned your stock and lost a ton!! every year I bought some under the premise that if you ever made money in just one quarter the stock would triple, and every quarter for 6 years TWA lost money....They must have fed you guys some pretty powerful kool-aid because all you guys sing the same tune about how you were screwed. I even heard a TWA guy say that you guys saved American?????
I'm sorry about what eventually happened but TWA was a doomed ship, if it weren't for 9-11 you guys would have all been better off.
When we're you hired there? and why would you go there instead of Delta/AA/UAL etc etc? anybody hired after 89-90 knew they were on the Titanic, and they ***** about the people who rescued them.

 

dckozak----I agree with your sentiments, but I really can't see an airline acquiring AA, with 730 mainline jets and 10,700 pilots. WHO would buy them?


For Vito...
I'm not sure where you're getting that, maybe '95 scales? I was hired in '96, got a nice raise in '98 with new contract, and was making six figures as a B-767-I F/O when AA bought us (as a 7th-yr F/O). I did get a raise, but then got bumped off 767 to MD-80-D, then furloughed. Again, what good is a raise if you're furloughed? No sale.

As far as 'hitting the lottery', you could'nt be more removed from the truthful reality. I was stripped of all my seniority, and placed below not only 12,800 AA pilots, but 498 new-hire, probationary, F/Os and F/Es who had'nt even interviewed, been hired, been trained or been awarded a seniority number when the buyout was announced in January 2001. They moved our integration date back 4 months to April, just to place us below these newly-hired, junior pilots; then, when they found our April 9th integration date came on a day when 60 new-hire AA pilots started class---they switched it to April 10th just to put us below them as well. I was a 7th-yr 767 F/O, but included in that group of 1300 TWA pilots stapled to the bottom of AA's pilot list were 150 14-yr MD-80/717 Captains. Imagine you're a Captain at a major, and you're stapled below the newest, most inexperienced junior pilot at AA. Insulting.

Your last statement "There was no way TWA could have made it through 9-11" is just a speculative guess, is'nt it? We'll never know, will we? But, consider this: AWA had half the airplanes we did, and half the cash; they got a US Government ATSB loan, downsized 20%, and survived to prosper, become profitable and find a merger partner. There is no reason to believe TWA could'nt have done the same thing---with a more reputable, more equitable, more compassionate and better organized merger partner.

'Kool-Aid'? Vito, you sound like the spokesman for the AA pilots' union, the APA. Their members think TWA had one foot in the grave, did'nt deserve their jobs, and should'nt be integrated at all. What do you call it when you think YOU deserve your job, but the other guy does'nt? The reality is they were mis-informed, and so are you.

And no, TWA did'nt 'save' American, but it most certainly DID make AA the biggest airline in the world, whether UA/USAir hooked up or not. AA got a $2 billion airline for only $750 million, and reaped great benefits from TWA assets. Consider this fact: If AA had not acquired TWA, junior '98/99 hires at AA would be furloughed right now, instead of senior TWA pilots (up to '88 seniority). So, the buyout and subsequent holocaust of an integration saved their junior asses.

All that said, I'd have been better off if TWA had been independent when 9-11 occured, and would have taken my chances as an independent instead of waiting 10 years for recall to MD-80 F/O on RSV, with a seniority number of 12,885, and no chance for Captain until I'm 55.

So you see, our career paths have been quite different; you work for a financially healthy carrier, and I did'nt. Glad you lucked out, and best to you and your future. If you don't think luck has a big part to play in this business, you're mistaken. Noone has a crystal ball, my friend.

 

I think I can sum it up pretty simply.

The brotherhood of pilots- Yay me and screw you.

I'm a 1987 TWA hire who realized he screwed up and got out as fast as he could. I lucked out and did exactly that in 1990.