FR8Hauler

Today I flew NRT-PEK. They had me scheduled to land at my alternate Shenyang (which I had never heard of, just north of the N. Korean boarder, 45 mins away) with 15,000 lbs. I called GOC and asked if anyone had ever been to Shenyang before and was told 4 years ago he thought. The reason he said he gave it to me as an alternate was b/c of the fuel savings, it was 30 minutes more (5,000 lbs more fuel) to ZSPD when our toff was 395,000 lbs. Winds at PEK were 30 kias. I told him I was not going to go to Shenyang and spend the night in a communist Chinese interogation room at the local customs shop because they had no idea who we were. I made him change it to Shanghai by telling him I was adding 10,000 lbs of gas. This whole thing has spun out of control.

DYNASTY HVY

Let me see now NRT-PEK with an alt to Shenyang?These ppl ever look at a world map?Waste more fuel messing around with Shenyang in the end anyways. so what was the point of putting in for Shenyang to begin with? Fuel bothering freight haulers that much?

JetJocF14

Hey Slick its not a matter of winning. Its a matter of trust. I have no problem being the captain. But the last thing I want to do is to have to constantly second guess GOC as if there setting me up for a fall. Flight plans with min FAT, Tammy at FL300, Commy alternates, Goc telling you that Biskeck is OK when its not after your heading to Astana.

Now I realize that GOC is not over there on Airways twirling there mustache and there getting there marching orders too. But its now becoming like a Las Vegas crap game with the house being the company and GOC. Maybe they can get you to accept a min FAT at memphis. You might over look that crazy alternate. Hey great the company makes more money. You wanna add gas.....ooopps we did make that much on that flight, maybe the next guy will be a chump.

Last year during a line check from ANC-KIK the LCA was giving me a little grief for adding 10K extra when the wx was cavu. I hadn't been there in about 7 months and wound up with us using 5 of the 10 due to re-route and holding. Man was just pumping out the party line.

So YO-Eleven and box cars pays 36-1.....................

mustang30

I also would like to know how many aircraft have diverted with the fuel problems. Do they take in consideration the loss of revenue because late freight. Coming in from the West coast with nqa as an alternate. If diverting, show I should land with 8700 pounds. I added 2000 pounds, guess what fog came to nqa, now not a suitable alternate and changed to stl. Now burn is 4000 pounds more and should land with 6000 pounds at alternate. If I did not add fuel, would have missed sort. Wrote goc back and said good thing I added fuel and answer was good call. Add to the problem was cat 1 acft and mem wx was var going below cat 1. All not forecasted.

MacGuy2

Personally, I think the FP/R is just a "starting point." I don't typically get GOC involved unless I have to. If I feel the need for extra fuel, I put it on. There are times when I'll accept the FP/R as it's printed, but when the MEM alternate is NQA or the EWR alternate is JFK, then extra fuel may be warranted.

One thing for sure is I don't want to divert. I've never been to NQA and haven't been to BHM or LIT in a really long time. (Not to mention some of these places the MD guys go that they can't even pronounce.) I figure if I have to divert because I'm skoosh on fuel, I'm already getting the tight *ss*ole and moving out of my comfort zone. Plus, once I get there, refuel, maybe wait for a new slot time, my 11 hour layover has been reduced to an 8 hour layover. Nope, for me, I'm adding whatever fuel I think is required to get me from point A to point B without a divert. GOC can plan for me to land at destination with 12K of fuel, but unless that destination is CAVU and has minimal traffic, and more than one runway, I'll probably add enough to stay in my comfort zone.

It's just my opinion, but it seems to work for me (and it usually makes my costar happy).

MG2

Fedex999999

Not going to get into this discussion too much, but here is something to think about.

If you will need Customs when you arrive, check if your alternate even HAS customs on duty at your ETA. Or you may get stuck somewhere, on the plane, for many, many hours, until an agent can arrive.

FYI, middle of the night into MEM.... ATL might be your best bet.

MaydayMark

"Speed is Life and Gas is Brains"

In other words ... it's a lot easier to think when I have a lot of gas !*? And although I'm basically onboard with the "saving gas idea" with oil $100+/barrel, I'm uncomfortable with the options GOC has been giving me lately.

FLMD11CAPT

Hey "Slick"..........I think you read me wrong. First, it's no "whine" not "no win". Second, I agree accept that there really is no second guessing at all. The decisions are the crews (Capt), and the crews alone. If an LCA wants to give me grief for a sound operational decision based on experience and safety considerations.....so what?

MaydayMark

Has anybody ever been questioned about adding extra fuel (except for the rare occasion when it results in having to leave freight behind)? I haven't ... this is a problem with a very easy fix ... if you think you need extra fuel and have a good reason, then add some!

Mark

Purple Nugget

Yup. Just a few weeks ago. ORD daytime arrival. EMPTY. Bad Wx in ORD, 9:30am scheduled arrival, CVG as an alternate, :15 mins. extra. Capt. was given the 3rd degree from GOC saying, "Don't you know fuel is expensive?!?" Burned all if it in holding at 6000' waiting on the runways to be cleared of snow.

On the other side, had the same trip the next week, and GOC said, "Good idea, I would have done it myself, we were just waiting on you."