SDFZ currently...both have pros and cons, DC-8 is still in SDF (I commute anyway) but pay on 747 is a lot better....I was really surprised that there is no pay protection here, guess it was in the last contract and was traded for something else in the current contract...If we still had it I could care less what I am flying...I guess I will have to start practing looking over my left shoulder again when ATC says, "traffic 12 o'clock"

True, what happened in a nutshell is that UPS did not follow the contract for this bid, they tried to hide some crews in ANC. IPA simply called them out on being non contractual. IPA following the contract to protect all provisions of the CBA. UPS did not want to do it, but the IPA said they should not have displaced these folks off of their current a/c anyway. Company is to blame for this blunder. IPA only guilty of protecting our contract for all members from new hire to over 60. Ultimately, a good thing. Notice it wasn't disputed by UPS, it was that blatant.

Salty is right on. This is exactly what happened. UPS holds our feet to the fire on the contract; we must do the same.

The pay protection that you are referring to is when you are hired, not displaced. What was happening was that UPS was hiring both FO's and FE's at the same time. If you were one of those that got an FE slot, then in the next class behind you they hired only FO's, well, 1st year it doesn't matter - all pay is the same. But now comes 2nd year pay and there is a difference. The pay protection was for the FE's until they could bid off that seat and into a right seat. Displacement is a whole another animal.

unfortunately, these guys are probationary so they can be reassigned to a different a/c or base anytime ups wants.

Not right but that is the way it is

[quote=SaltyDog;360665]True, what happened in a nutshell is that UPS did not follow the contract for this bid, they tried to hide some crews in ANC. IPA simply called them out on being non contractual. IPA following the contract to protect all provisions of the CBA. UPS did not want to do it, but the IPA said they should not have displaced these folks off of their current a/c anyway. Company is to blame for this blunder. IPA only guilty of protecting our contract for all members from new hire to over 60. Ultimately, a good thing. Notice it wasn't disputed by UPS, it was that blatant.[/quote]

Yeah, wonderful...the company screwed up and let a few guys stay in the F/O seat. Good thing the IPA stepped up and called 'em out. Maybe, the IPA was thinking that the company would give those slots to 10 over 60's...but I don't think that happened. Instead, those 10 guys caught f'd right back to the panel...and you wonder why the company said "ok"? Ask these poor guys that are going back to training how they feel about the union stepping up?? Or ask ANY crewmember for that matter. WE JUST LOST 10 F/O POSITIONS. I don't understand it. I understand that we must be contractual, but when the company throws us a bone, do we call them out?

Don't mean to **** people off here and maybe I'm saying too much, or maybe I don't know the real story, but shoot, looks to me like we gave away F/O positions...or better yet MADE the company take them away.

correct me if I'm wrong...I hope I am.

[QUOTE=Brownguy;360710]Call Bob Miller at the IPA and ask him. He will answer your questions. Instead of getting upset here, make a call. Seriously. There are always things going on in the background that we don't see or hear about.

... Yeah, wonderful...the company screwed up and let a few guys stay in the F/O seat. Good thing the IPA stepped up and called 'em out. Maybe, the IPA was thinking that the company would give those slots to 10 over 60's...but I don't think that happened. Instead, those 10 guys caught f'd right back to the panel...and you wonder why the company said "ok"?

Ask these poor guys that are going back to training how they feel about the union stepping up?? Or ask ANY crewmember for that matter. WE JUST LOST 10 F/O POSITIONS. I don't understand it. I understand that we must be contractual, but when the company throws us a bone, do we call them out?...

I agree, I must say it's funny how this "contract violation" was so critical to the union? Also, a -400 FO who will probably be displaced in the near future told me the other day that he thought it was amazing how quickly the new agreement was signed once the over 60 guys started trickling into the ANC domicile. In the recent past, all the junior guys kept complaining about not having the same ANC benefits as the MD pilots when it came to moving, reserve call out, pay package, etc. The union kept saying they were working on it but months went by and nothing happened.

Then the over 60 guys started trickling back into the ANC domicile and boom, the letter of agreement was signed with the company on giving MD and -400 guys the very same benefits.

Maybe it's a coincidence I don't know, maybe it just took them that long and they finally found a common ground at about the same time the new law was signed. Or maybe he’s correct when he cited the much less known Newton’s 5th law: “the speed of solving a problem between the union and the company is inversely proportional to the pilots’ seniority.”

The situation now is basicly the same. We have guys, such as myself, getting displaced/reassigned to FE while others who are junior them are still FOs. I think that of the 35 of us displaced/reassigned to FE only 2 or 3 had FE on their system preference above the ANC FO positions. That second year pay you speak of is rapidly approaching and it is going to cost me and the other "new FEs" about $30K a year. A little pay protection would be a very welcome development in this unpleasant situation.

[QUOTE=Brownguy;360710]Brownguy,
Company didn't screw up. It was not a "bone" for us, It was intentional violation of the CBA and they are not interested in throwing you or I a "bone" but giving us the bone. They have blundered and were trying to cover some of the numbers up to demonstrate how cost effective this displacement is for UPS.
Certainly you don't want nor expect ourselves to allow the company to violate our only protections? Your frustrated. We all are frustrated with this exercise. Remember, the EB recommended and demonstrated a way to leave you,me and these five folks alone on our current seat. Call over to the 'IPA' and get the details from whomever. PM me if you want for more specific info. These five fellow IPA'ers were going to training somewhere, now like me, will ultimately train twice. Many folks have spent numerous cycles in the schoolhouse. It demonstrates the poor planning and wasted cost by UPS. This is old news for them. Sadly, You will get used to this pattern by UPS. At least we all have a seat though.
This waste and havoc created in your life is the complete responsibility of UPS. The silver lining for UPS is the hope you blame your own group and despise the senior folks. What a gift. Part of the divide and conquer plan. Don't fall for it. UPS always look for opportunity to divide us.