I thought Agency Shop would be a good thing. It isn't.

DW is either incompetent or a liar. He made specific statements at the union meetings that proved wrong or false. The age 60 issue was huge and to go against the vast majority was reprehensible IMO. To force the issue with the over 60 FEs and allow them to bid back to the front under the guise of "the right thing to do" was also against the majority wishes and the absolute wrong thing to do. The company immediately threw out the "Furlough" word within a month of the age 60 change.
DW was also totally out to lunch on the FDA LOA and made ridiculous statements regarding how senior these bases would go. He simply has no clue and obviously doesn't care.
The union recently sends out statements about furlough protection because of the "senior pilots" at FedEx who got certain things in "OUR" contract. Just shameful.

So........I still like ALPA and want ALPA as our union. But.....if agency shop was thrown out, I'd quit for awhile to send the very valuable message that you must listen to the majority, not have a holier than though attitude, and work for the "all" the pilots in this union.

 

Albie has learned quickly how the "system works." After a half a year criticizing the LOA and advocating folks not bid it to "show the company and union," he's jumped on the band wagon and bid HK! Didn't take him long to learn the "physics" of pass-over pay. So, just what message is this new "union rep" communicating to the crew force now? It always amazes me how guys can justify their individual actions even though those actions are in direct conflict with the greater good of the membership.

 

Hey Pickle,

Cats outta the bag baby, milk's already spilled. I think Everyone bidding Hong Kong CA is enough Hong Kong Fooey to bring attention to the fact the LOA is so substandard that it created part of this disaster.

I think he's on to something. Personally I am going to make sure my Mandarin Rosetta Stone software is in before I bid it just in case they actually make me go.

 

This is the exact reason for agency shop. If everyone could quit whenever they got mad at Union's Actions or lack there of we would be back to the FPA. With No agency shop all guys within a year of retirement could quit or Managers would quit ot training guys etc etc etc.

While I agree with you that 100% Voluntary paying membership is optimum, it is unlikely. Even in the best of times there is always someone that has their 1 issue they would quit over.

You have to pay Fed Taxes (maybe state too). I don't like Bush and I didn't like Clinton but I still had to pay.

Like it or not you are Blue Collar Labor and we are all better off with Union representation and ALPA is is only real Pilot's Union. (all other Independent Pilot Unions like it or not dove tail off ALPA's efforts) ALPA ain't perfect by a long shot but it the best option we have Bar none. You have to Pay to Play.

 

Like it or not this is still a free country, and to force someone to join a union is downright un-American. Someone else said it earlier, if the union was worth a darn and actually represented the membership, there would be no trouble getting dues.

I've been a member of the American Motorcyclist Association for almost 25 years, and I continue to pay them dues because I believe in what they are doing and they represent my interests in Washington DC. I wish I could say the same about ALPA.

And before you even go there (again), Redeye and Busboy, I am not going to quit the union if we do away with Agency Shop. If the union continues to bone me and act against my best interests, eventually I will quit whether we have agency shop or not.

It is about principle, and that principle is about living in America, not the Communist States of America.

FJ

 

It still is a free country (although under GWB Patriot act we have lost some)
You don't have to join the Union you just have to pay the Administration Fee.

Just like your Taxes in this Free Country the same principle.

BTW I would hate to see what this job would be if there weren't Unions.

And for a union to Be successful in the long term it needs a steady stream of income just like the Country with its tax revenue. I won't argue with you that lately things have been a little messed up both with the Union and the Country.

It seems nobody remembers the good things ALPA did for the industry as a whole. When the economy is Great everyone thinks ALPA is a hero, when the Economy is in recession and bankrupcies/ mergers are commonplace, it is always ALPA's fault.

Would you really rather we not have a viable Union? Were you not here when we had our failed independent with a voluntary membership.

I guess Greedy corrupt Corp CEO's. and their poor MGT teams as well as Presidental appointed Bankruptcy Judges have done us no wrong.

Unions are necessary (more than ever) if you are Blue collar and so are your dues I'm afraid.

 

97% isn't a steady enough stream for you? Nobody says ALPA isn't good. We are just saying it could be better.

PS sorry you cant talk to your cousin abdul in Pakistan without GW listening in. But as long as you don't mention jihad you shhould be OK.

 

97% is fine and 100% voluntary is better, I'll grant you, but you'll never get it. Too many on this forum have repeatedly suggested they would have quit the Union over one issue or another if it hadn't been for agency shop. A union can't survive in the long term without it. Look at the USAir East guys. They just cut off their nose to spite their face. Now watch the fun when they merge with United..........an ALPA carrier.

As for you second comment: GFY, maybe you haven't lost a dear friend or a loved one over there.

 

More people will lose dear friends without the GWB Patriot Act, but I guess foriegn terrorists rights are more important to you than other peoples dear friends.

Now back to the thread... How about a dues holiday for anyone who is involuntarily excessed to a lower paying crew position as a result of our MECs actions? Small potatoes maybe, but could be a good gesture toward those who have been screwed by the retroactivity clause.

 

How many greedy MF'ers are on the seniority list that would love to save another 1.95% of their pay, regardless of the issue at hand? I am wholeheartedly for DW's resignation, but getting rid of agency shop is stupid.