Laughing_Jakal

Funny, when I read the ALPA provided Kool Aid "Flying the line"....I don't remember any of those original guys worrying too much about lawsuits. The solution is not to ditch alpa or agency shop, the solution is to pay attention to the block elections, and put guys in there that will listen. Vic, Albie, that other guy who used to post on here, and one more when SM goes to Herndon. So pay attention, vote, come to Memphis for block meetings, and help stack the deck.

Growing up, I learned that when someone gets ill while ocean racing, don't barf into the wind. Go to the low side of the sailboat and then get rid of your upset stomach. Knowing how physics (and the system works), then applying that knowledge, often keeps you from standing in a puddle of your own vomit.

Falconjet

Sorry, but i just couldn't let this pass without comment. What liability, exactly would ALPA be subject to? ALPA didn't write the law, ALPA wasn't preventing anybody from working past 60. ALPA had a longstanding opposition to the change that they traded away for pie in the sky language and pork to be added to the FAA reauthorization bill. It was a political, dirty, under the table quid pr quo deal. No way around it.

I haven't heard of a single lawsuit brought against APA or the NWA for not supporting the age change, and there never will be one. They can't be sued for being in compliance with the law. ALPA similarly had no liability, that is just another part of the smokescreen to shift scrutiny away from the fact that they turned their backs on the majority of the membership.

Water under the bridge, done deal, but at least look at it honestly for what it was. Back door politics, no more no less.

FJ

HerkDriver

Good points from both sides; thanks very much guys.
Back to my original question if I may though...can something be pulled OUT of the contract? If so, how do I go about submitting it for a vote by our membership? Does the MEC have to power to stop something like this coming to a vote before it ever gets off the ground? I spent some time last night reading the ALPA "Handbooks" online, and couldn't seem to find anything about how a member goes about presenting this. If anybody can direct me to the protocol and procedures that deal with this sort of action, I would truly appreciate it.
Obviously we don't put everybody's minor wants or desires to a vote every time. If we did, we'd never get anything accomplished. I just feel like OUR money is something that ALPA does care about; it maybe the only thing that they care about. Giving our pilots back the power to control it might send a wake up call to the higher ups that they stand to lose more than just our trust if they don't shape up.

Laughing_Jakal

Go to a LEC meeting and submit a resolution. Micro has the details.

pinseeker

Just wondering, other than age 60, what has the union voted on against the wishes of the majority of the members. LOA which seems to be a hot spot passed 68-32. Can't think of any other major votes.

HerkDriver

How about the 2004 decision to throw ALPA's support behind John Kerry, despite the overwhelming desire of the membership NOT to do it. In the purest sense you can't say that they went against the vote, because it never got put it to one. (We'll see how things go today in regards to the 2008 presidential endorsement...haven't seen any results of today's conference call, but I have my suspicions about how it will play out. I may be wrong.)

How about the MEC's side letter with the company (during our last contract negotiations) to throw city purity out the window. Oops, guess that one doesn't count either as we didn't get to vote on that one as well. I'd bet you a month's pay though, that our membership wouldn't have been in favor of that if they had been given a voice.

Guess you are right...we haven't had many MAJOR votes on anything. Just decisions dictated to us and apologies after the fact.

Jakal...Who is Micro? Thanks.

hyperone

HerkDriver - "Guess you are right...we haven't had many MAJOR votes on anything. Just decisions dictated to us and apologies after the fact."

HD, I couldn't agree more, except that I'm still looking for any kind of apology or admission of fault for how they've screwed up the age 60 debacle or the HKG/CDG LOA. Not only have they not admitted any mistakes, they don't even seem to recognize the discontent of the majority of the membership over these issues.

Micro

Let me first say that I'm not an expert in this, but after reading all the 'ops specs" for the union, I would agree that you should put forth a resolution at your LEC level (seconded and passed at the LEC) that the MEC direct the Neg Comm to develop a LOA or side letter with the company deleting agency shop from the contract. The problem I see is that it will NOT happen because it next goes to the MEC for discussion and a MEC vote and I suspect they (the MEC) will kill it.
If you want to ensure that's how you initiate it call the union and talk to the lawyers to get the procedures.
I can tell you I won't quit the union but I also want the agency shop gone. That way we'll see who really is behind the union. Good riddance to the guys who quit. I reallyt don't care if they pay or not.

Falconjet

HerkDriver: It will never even get past the LEC. I tried (and I'm pretty sure you were there Micro), to make a motion that the LEC recommend to the MEC that they (the MEC) reject the company's offer of the $10K in rental deposit assistance, as it was outside of the LOA and we still had the standing bid open at the time.

You may recall that this was also exactly a day or two after ALPA announced that it was suing Pinnacle because they were offering pilots there bonuses for recruiting new pilots, outside the bounds of their CBA.

Well, after at least 30 minutes of debate when everybody present got to speak and you think it might finally go to a vote, THEN the LEC members take their opportunity to speak. If they are opposed to your motion (which in the case of Agency shop they will very likely be) they will talk it down and use their bully pulpit to convince everyone that they know what should be done.

My motion lost 14-1. Keep in mind, this was just a motion to have the LEC recommend the MEC to reject the offer of assistance outside of the LOA during the bid. So, because the LEC didn't agree with me (nor anybody else as it turned out), I couldn't get my concerns to the MEC.

The elected officials are entrenched, the only realistic way to replace them is through regular elections when their term is up. As far as getting to DW, there is no way in hades.

I hate agency shop, I don't believe the company just gave it to us, and I think it has done much more harm than the dues increase (oh thats right, there wasn't even any dues increase) could have ever brought.

But with ALPA, its all about the benjamins.

Good luck.

FJ

Micro

FJ, I don't know what block you're in but if it's block 6 you need to run to take SM's place. Don't let the MEC backfill his position. We need guys to step up to the plate and run for office to replace the ones we haven't been happy with. PM me if you'd like.