Ups/dhl
08-04-2008, 11:51 AM
#81
New ride...
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Posts: 534
Originally Posted by Commando
By LAW, your contract is not enforcable beyond our borders. Period. If UPS wanted to go to court, they would win. It doesn't matter what your contract says. RLA law is only enforcable in the US. The odds are 99% that this will not happen, but that is not the point of this discussion. People have to be aware of what big business COULD do if they wanted to start a war.
Your Union probably says that you have the best language, but ask them if push came to shove, what would happen. They will reluctently tell you the truth.
Your Union probably says that you have the best language, but ask them if push came to shove, what would happen. They will reluctently tell you the truth.
Contracts are only as good as the enforcement of them. However, DHL is a foreign company doing business here, so I'm not sure what kind of recourse ABX/ASTAR have. Again, the only ones making money here are the lawyers and their fees. Good luck to all.
08-04-2008, 12:14 PM
#82
Tri-tanic operator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Doggie
Posts: 2,382
Originally Posted by 1800 RVR
I understand what you are saying. But, are you a lawyer? You say that the RLA cannot be enforced beyond the USA borders. But, what does that actually encompass? Does that mean those FedEx'ers that will be going to HKG will NOT be covered by their CBA? I don't think so, but as well, I'm not a lawyer either. It is an american company doing business in a foreign country. I'm sure ALPA did some research before they recommended voting YES on their FDA LOA.
Contracts are only as good as the enforcement of them. However, DHL is a foreign company doing business here, so I'm not sure what kind of recourse ABX/ASTAR have. Again, the only ones making money here are the lawyers and their fees. Good luck to all.
Contracts are only as good as the enforcement of them. However, DHL is a foreign company doing business here, so I'm not sure what kind of recourse ABX/ASTAR have. Again, the only ones making money here are the lawyers and their fees. Good luck to all.
Don't see why a contract and it's workrules would apply to DAL, AMR, NWA, etc while operating abroad either ...
Enlighten us ...
08-04-2008, 12:19 PM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Originally Posted by 1800 RVR
I understand what you are saying. But, are you a lawyer? You say that the RLA cannot be enforced beyond the USA borders. But, what does that actually encompass? Does that mean those FedEx'ers that will be going to HKG will NOT be covered by their CBA? I don't think so, but as well, I'm not a lawyer either. It is an american company doing business in a foreign country. I'm sure ALPA did some research before they recommended voting YES on their FDA LOA.
Contracts are only as good as the enforcement of them. However, DHL is a foreign company doing business here, so I'm not sure what kind of recourse ABX/ASTAR have. Again, the only ones making money here are the lawyers and their fees. Good luck to all.
Contracts are only as good as the enforcement of them. However, DHL is a foreign company doing business here, so I'm not sure what kind of recourse ABX/ASTAR have. Again, the only ones making money here are the lawyers and their fees. Good luck to all.
08-04-2008, 12:38 PM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: The IPA EB speaks for me
Posts: 520
Two US Senators Request Antitrust Review Of UPS-DHL Deal
Last update: 8/4/2008 2:37:15 PM
By Brent Kendall
Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
WASHINGTON (Dow Jones)--Two U.S. senators asked federal regulators Monday
to take a close look at a 10-year agreement between United Parcel Service
Inc. (UPS) and DHL Express that makes UPS the exclusive provider of air
shipping for DHL's North American package-delivery service.
Sens. Herb Kohl, D-Wis., and Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, the leading members of a
Senate antitrust subcommittee, said in a letter that the deal "raises
important antitrust and competition issues" and should be reviewed
carefully.
The senators sent the letter to regulators at the Department of Justice and
the Federal Trade Commission.
Kohl and Hatch said they have not reached a conclusion on the deal's
legality, but they said the deal raises question about DHL's ability to
compete against UPS.
The senators also said the deal would have a "devastating financial impact"
on DHL's current air transport providers, ABX Air and ASTAR.
UPS and DHL are the second and third largest overnight delivery services in
the United States, behind Fedex Corp. (FDX).
The two companies announced their deal in May.
-By Brent Kendall, Dow Jones Newswires; 202-862-9222;
[email protected]
Click here to go to Dow Jones NewsPlus, a web front page of today's most
important business and market news, analysis and commentary:
http://www.djnewsplus.com/al?rnd=gnR...uM34KHkA%3D%3D. You can use
this link on the day this article is published and the following day.
(END) Dow Jones Newswires
August 04, 2008 14:37 ET (18:37 GMT)
Copyright © 2008 MarketWatch, Inc. All rights reserved. Please see our Terms
of Use.
MarketWatch, the MarketWatch logo, and BigCharts are registered trademarks
of MarketWatch, Inc.
News provided by Dow Jones NewswiresSM, PR News Wireâ„¢ and Business Wireâ„¢.
Dow Jones Newswires is a service mark of Dow Jones & Company. PR News Wire
is a Trademark of PR Newswire Association, Inc. Business Wire is a
registered trademark and service mark of Business Wire.
Last update: 8/4/2008 2:37:15 PM
By Brent Kendall
Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
WASHINGTON (Dow Jones)--Two U.S. senators asked federal regulators Monday
to take a close look at a 10-year agreement between United Parcel Service
Inc. (UPS) and DHL Express that makes UPS the exclusive provider of air
shipping for DHL's North American package-delivery service.
Sens. Herb Kohl, D-Wis., and Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, the leading members of a
Senate antitrust subcommittee, said in a letter that the deal "raises
important antitrust and competition issues" and should be reviewed
carefully.
The senators sent the letter to regulators at the Department of Justice and
the Federal Trade Commission.
Kohl and Hatch said they have not reached a conclusion on the deal's
legality, but they said the deal raises question about DHL's ability to
compete against UPS.
The senators also said the deal would have a "devastating financial impact"
on DHL's current air transport providers, ABX Air and ASTAR.
UPS and DHL are the second and third largest overnight delivery services in
the United States, behind Fedex Corp. (FDX).
The two companies announced their deal in May.
-By Brent Kendall, Dow Jones Newswires; 202-862-9222;
[email protected]
Click here to go to Dow Jones NewsPlus, a web front page of today's most
important business and market news, analysis and commentary:
http://www.djnewsplus.com/al?rnd=gnR...uM34KHkA%3D%3D. You can use
this link on the day this article is published and the following day.
(END) Dow Jones Newswires
August 04, 2008 14:37 ET (18:37 GMT)
Copyright © 2008 MarketWatch, Inc. All rights reserved. Please see our Terms
of Use.
MarketWatch, the MarketWatch logo, and BigCharts are registered trademarks
of MarketWatch, Inc.
News provided by Dow Jones NewswiresSM, PR News Wireâ„¢ and Business Wireâ„¢.
Dow Jones Newswires is a service mark of Dow Jones & Company. PR News Wire
is a Trademark of PR Newswire Association, Inc. Business Wire is a
registered trademark and service mark of Business Wire.
08-04-2008, 12:43 PM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MD CA
Posts: 705
Does that mean those FedEx'ers that will be going to HKG will NOT be covered by their CBA? I don't think so.
Technically, this is exactly what I'm saying. You are covered by your contract with FDX. But the law of that contract is only enforcable in the us. FDX goes along and has agreed to extend the contract to cover its pilots everywhere.
But if they wanted; and if UPS wanted, to hire DHL or anyone for that matter outside the US, they could. No matter what your scope says. This would start a huge war. And it will never happen most likely. But under the definition of the labor laws of the US, they could. Ask your Union reps or an ALPA attorney.
Technically, this is exactly what I'm saying. You are covered by your contract with FDX. But the law of that contract is only enforcable in the us. FDX goes along and has agreed to extend the contract to cover its pilots everywhere.
But if they wanted; and if UPS wanted, to hire DHL or anyone for that matter outside the US, they could. No matter what your scope says. This would start a huge war. And it will never happen most likely. But under the definition of the labor laws of the US, they could. Ask your Union reps or an ALPA attorney.
08-04-2008, 01:01 PM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: DC-8 756/767
Posts: 1,144
Originally Posted by MoosePileit
Two US Senators Request Antitrust Review Of UPS-DHL Deal
Last update: 8/4/2008 2:37:15 PM
By Brent Kendall
Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
WASHINGTON (Dow Jones)--Two U.S. senators asked federal regulators Monday
to take a close look at a 10-year agreement between United Parcel Service
Inc. (UPS) and DHL Express that makes UPS the exclusive provider of air
shipping for DHL's North American package-delivery service.
Sens. Herb Kohl, D-Wis., and Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, the leading members of a
Senate antitrust subcommittee, said in a letter that the deal "raises
important antitrust and competition issues" and should be reviewed
carefully.
The senators sent the letter to regulators at the Department of Justice and
the Federal Trade Commission.
Kohl and Hatch said they have not reached a conclusion on the deal's
legality, but they said the deal raises question about DHL's ability to
compete against UPS.
The senators also said the deal would have a "devastating financial impact"
on DHL's current air transport providers, ABX Air and ASTAR.
UPS and DHL are the second and third largest overnight delivery services in
the United States, behind Fedex Corp. (FDX).
The two companies announced their deal in May.
-By Brent Kendall, Dow Jones Newswires; 202-862-9222;
[email protected]
Click here to go to Dow Jones NewsPlus, a web front page of today's most
important business and market news, analysis and commentary:
http://www.djnewsplus.com/al?rnd=gnR...uM34KHkA%3D%3D. You can use
this link on the day this article is published and the following day.
(END) Dow Jones Newswires
August 04, 2008 14:37 ET (18:37 GMT)
Copyright © 2008 MarketWatch, Inc. All rights reserved. Please see our Terms
of Use.
MarketWatch, the MarketWatch logo, and BigCharts are registered trademarks
of MarketWatch, Inc.
News provided by Dow Jones NewswiresSM, PR News Wireâ„¢ and Business Wireâ„¢.
Dow Jones Newswires is a service mark of Dow Jones & Company. PR News Wire
is a Trademark of PR Newswire Association, Inc. Business Wire is a
registered trademark and service mark of Business Wire.
Last update: 8/4/2008 2:37:15 PM
By Brent Kendall
Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
WASHINGTON (Dow Jones)--Two U.S. senators asked federal regulators Monday
to take a close look at a 10-year agreement between United Parcel Service
Inc. (UPS) and DHL Express that makes UPS the exclusive provider of air
shipping for DHL's North American package-delivery service.
Sens. Herb Kohl, D-Wis., and Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, the leading members of a
Senate antitrust subcommittee, said in a letter that the deal "raises
important antitrust and competition issues" and should be reviewed
carefully.
The senators sent the letter to regulators at the Department of Justice and
the Federal Trade Commission.
Kohl and Hatch said they have not reached a conclusion on the deal's
legality, but they said the deal raises question about DHL's ability to
compete against UPS.
The senators also said the deal would have a "devastating financial impact"
on DHL's current air transport providers, ABX Air and ASTAR.
UPS and DHL are the second and third largest overnight delivery services in
the United States, behind Fedex Corp. (FDX).
The two companies announced their deal in May.
-By Brent Kendall, Dow Jones Newswires; 202-862-9222;
[email protected]
Click here to go to Dow Jones NewsPlus, a web front page of today's most
important business and market news, analysis and commentary:
http://www.djnewsplus.com/al?rnd=gnR...uM34KHkA%3D%3D. You can use
this link on the day this article is published and the following day.
(END) Dow Jones Newswires
August 04, 2008 14:37 ET (18:37 GMT)
Copyright © 2008 MarketWatch, Inc. All rights reserved. Please see our Terms
of Use.
MarketWatch, the MarketWatch logo, and BigCharts are registered trademarks
of MarketWatch, Inc.
News provided by Dow Jones NewswiresSM, PR News Wireâ„¢ and Business Wireâ„¢.
Dow Jones Newswires is a service mark of Dow Jones & Company. PR News Wire
is a Trademark of PR Newswire Association, Inc. Business Wire is a
registered trademark and service mark of Business Wire.
On a separate note, they just took a 5 week vacation. See ya on the beach.
(edited for HVY, as a five week vacation has nothing to do with anything but taking a VACATION)
Last edited by UPSFO4LIFE; 08-05-2008 at 06:18 AM.
08-04-2008, 01:05 PM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 295
Originally Posted by Commando
But the law of that contract is only enforcable in the US.
If I have a contractual rest issue in Germany, I'm not gonna file a grievance in German court. It will be taken care of right here in Kentucky.
???
08-04-2008, 01:26 PM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 337
Originally Posted by Commando
Does that mean those FedEx'ers that will be going to HKG will NOT be covered by their CBA? I don't think so.
Technically, this is exactly what I'm saying. You are covered by your contract with FDX. But the law of that contract is only enforcable in the us. FDX goes along and has agreed to extend the contract to cover its pilots everywhere.
But if they wanted; and if UPS wanted, to hire DHL or anyone for that matter outside the US, they could. No matter what your scope says. This would start a huge war. And it will never happen most likely. But under the definition of the labor laws of the US, they could. Ask your Union reps or an ALPA attorney.
Technically, this is exactly what I'm saying. You are covered by your contract with FDX. But the law of that contract is only enforcable in the us. FDX goes along and has agreed to extend the contract to cover its pilots everywhere.
But if they wanted; and if UPS wanted, to hire DHL or anyone for that matter outside the US, they could. No matter what your scope says. This would start a huge war. And it will never happen most likely. But under the definition of the labor laws of the US, they could. Ask your Union reps or an ALPA attorney.
Sorry, but you are incorrect. Here's an excerpt from our contract.
"The Company, its affiliates, the Association, and their
successors agree, that in connection with any dispute before an arbitrator or in
court, not to raise as a defense the non-applicability of the Railway Labor Act to
international operations."
08-04-2008, 01:28 PM
#89
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Upright & Locked
Posts: 60
The link below helps explain RLA coverage outside of the US.
Application of Labor Legislation to Airline Employees Abroad
Application of Labor Legislation to Airline Employees Abroad
Last edited by UPSDISPATCHER; 08-04-2008 at 01:31 PM. Reason: bad url
08-04-2008, 01:53 PM
#90
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Dozing for Dollars
Posts: 78
Originally Posted by UPSDISPATCHER
The link below helps explain RLA coverage outside of the US.
Application of Labor Legislation to Airline Employees Abroad
Application of Labor Legislation to Airline Employees Abroad
g
