MD11Fr8Dog

This is incorrect. If you bisect a block of reserve, ie. leaves days on either end of the training slot, the whole block goes away.

If you are bidding 15 days in a row, this is especially important (unless it is something you plan to do). Just flew with a Captain who forgot to bid for recurrent training and had 15 days of reserve. All R days were dropped after the recurrent training slot appeared on his schedule and he had to go in and pick up trips to fly.[/QUOTE]

Also, this is NOT necessarily bad. I did this on purpose in June. I was eligible for 74hrs of CIA (68+6) and wanted to pick up a long international trip. I bisected the 15 day block of reserve on my R line and grabbed an around the world trip. CIA gets first shot at open time, before VTOs!

Also, unlike VTOs, all inputs have to be trip specific, can't put in "commuter line", etc.

Lindy

I'm correct...

I didn't say Reserve LINE. I said Reserve Period, i.e., 5 days, 4 days, 15 days, etc.

One thing, if you are protecting min days off and NOT conflicting with R-days, I do not think there is anything in the View/Add window to "pick-up." No days were lost due to training.

hyperone

Actually Lindy, I also don't think you're correct on this one. No where does the contract talk about being able to knock out only one R-day at the beginning or end of a block of R-days. The section of the contract that applies is 25.C.11.f.i.:

f. Following the award during the Conflict Processing Window, a trip or block of R-days in conflict with the recurrent training session award shall be treated as a phase-in conflict as provided in Section 25.F. (e.g., the trip or R-day(s) shall be dropped and be eligible for make-up under the CIA assignment code), with the pilot having the ability to enter bids during the following View/Add Window. Conflicts with blocks of R-days under this paragraph shall be handled as follows:
i. If the pilot’s recurrent training conflicts with a block of R-days but does not split that block (i.e., it does not leave an R-day(s) both before and after the recurrent training), then only the R-days in conflict with recurrent training shall be dropped as a phase-in conflict and the pilot shall remain responsible for the remaining R-days.
ii. If the pilot’s recurrent training splits a block of R-days, then the entire block shall be dropped as a phase-in conflict and the pilot shall not be responsible for any of the R-days in that block.

So, the way I and apparently, MD11Fr8Dog, interpret that section of the contract is, that as long as you knock out the first or last 2 or 3 days of a block of R-days with your training, then only those days will be dropped- not the whole block. You will only have the whole block dropped if you split the block with your training.

Lindy

I re-read my inital post and I can see where it causes concern. I stated "if it touches more than one R-Day" the entire block will be dropped. This is the case if you have 4 R-Days, put training on the first two, and then not legal to sit the 3rd R-day, the 4th day will be dropped. Per our contract, we cannot have one stand-a-lone R-Day.

Also, you can knock out only one R-Day at the beginning or the end of a block of R-Days. The contract discusses SPLITTING a block of days, but as a practical matter: put training on the day before an R-Day and the 1st R-Day of a block, done by 5pm, legal to sit A-Reserve for 2nd R-Day. Even though it isn't delineated in the contract, it is my understanding that is the current procedure. (Just because it isn't in the contract does not mean that it hasn't been seen/experienced by some).

Those with first-hand knowledge/experience can chime in.

The initial question also discussed Protecting Min Days Off. It is my understanding that the two R-Days dropped are ineligible for make-up.

Training and reserve can be very tricky. The Captain I flew with wanted to sit reserve and not fly a line. For those very junior, it is great to cherry pick trips but not everyone has that same goal.

fdx727pilot

I have to disagree with you here and go with MD11Fr8Dog and hyperone. I have done training where I knocked out 2 R-days with the training. Since it was B Rsv, the 12 hour buffer did not conflict with my third day of reserve, and the rest of the 5 day block was preserved. I got a trip to make up for the dropped R-days during the view/add.

Also, in your example, the pilot could not sit A Rsv the next day, as a 12 hr buffer is required after sim training or ground school (Sec 11. E. 11,) which would be 0500L in your example. The sim would have to end prior to 1330L.

Lindy

Ok. 12 hours. I was burned not too long ago by :03 minutes, so it is a poor example to use 5pm.

However, I didn't use 5 days, but 4 days. Unless things have changed, you cannot have a stand-a-lone reserve day. Two days for training; third day is knocked out because of the 12 hour rule, leaving one day. That one day is (then) knocked out.

I guess it is too late because I used the same example you did regarding the 5 days in a later post. I don't disagree with that statement. If there is not a conflict w/ the 12 hours, you sit 3 R-Days.

Someone stated that you couldn't knock out just one R-Day, which is incorrect. You knocked out two. Yes, it isn't in the contract, but actual usage permits an individual to knock out one or two r-days at the beginning or the end of a block of days.

Too many examples. Too many choices. Everyone has a different view. Keep the R-Days or bid a block of 15, split training, and cherry pick trips.

MD11Fr8Dog

Not true!

My Dec RA line had 3 blocks of R days - 12/11-15, 2 days off, 12/18-23, 2 days off (Christmas Eve and Christmas Day) and 12/26-29. I bid and was awarded training on 12/28-29. 12/27 went away for "12 hour rule" leaving 12/26 standing there all by its lonesome self!

Here's the proof -

My Dec07 Calendar

oh darn, now Capt "O" knows who I am!

Busboy

I'm not a reservist. And, I'm too lazy to look it up.

But, just wanted to point out that what you're saying is only proof that they did it to you. Doesn't mean it was "legal" per the CBA.

They've done many things that are not in accordance with the CBA. Especially around the holidays.

MD11Fr8Dog

Well, let's see if Lindy can come up with the CBA reference for no stand alone R-days!

Lindy

My reference is Reserve Line Construction:

25.D.3. (a-e)

Basically, the top 60% reserve lines have blocks of 4 R-Days and the rest have a minimum of 3 R-Days (but no R-Days on weekends).

In the past, scheduling would not let us stand a single R-Day; we had to have a minimum of two.

MD-11 Freight Dog, well, I don't know what to say. I would ask ALPA if this is a change with the last contract. (And you didn't have to put your calendar available....I'm not motivated enough to even go look to see who you are!!).