No, vacancies have to be put out for a bid to all crewmembers (with exception of probies - those awards need not be filled by the company). It is those vacancies that are left over after all the musical chairs is done that are filled by newhires.

 

All vacancies must be posted and crewmembers must be allowed to bid on prior to a new hire.

(confirmed by Brian Conley)

 

So how many slots will be vacant for 27 wide-bodies? What's their staffing model for the 767? Some aircraft would be retired due to the additional planes, no?

How many over-sixty guys are still in the F/E seat?

 

DWB,
The ultra senior 60+ generally won't be able to cash in. Recall that once you are 63, UPS does not contractually have to train you (Bypass: Art 14.3)for a new seat. Also, since they took an upgrade from S/O to F/O or Capt, they incurred a 12 month transition freeze, same seat to seat incurs a 24 month transition freeze. (Art 14.E.2.c), Example: the 60+ year old 747-400 F/O's incurred a seat lock (Transistion Freeze). Very few of these folks just turned 60. Many by either transition freeze or natural age, will be beyond 63 next year when vacancies occur. This means that will be ineligible for recurring vacancies. (Seats opened up by the domino effect of displacements or original vacancies). They would be eligible for original vacancies, however, the age 63 clock still applies thus voiding for the majority (by company choice) their ability to train in a new seat. Thus, I see the opportunities for the rest of the group, generally benfitting the more junior. Most of the mid seniority folks are just not really in play unless they are looking for a life change. Generally low turnover though in these levels. (50% F/O for example). Also, the folks that are now turning 60 generally will sit where they are and will not change the shuffle (other than delay another upgrade for the next 5 years. ) In any case, the 767's showing up won't see many of the 60+ folks moving like we did with the original 74 vacancies and 74 legacy displacements. That one time event is over.

 

SD,

Didn't the company say that they will train whomever that bids the front seat regardless of age?

I thought I heard someone posted something about a guy on IOE on the -400 that is 64 yrs old.

 

No. There are a few 64 year olds going through training/IOE. The last bid the company posted stated that if you had not turned 64 by close of bid would be trained. I have my opinion why this more unusual position was taken for bid closing,etc, but it boils down to generally complying with the contract and a non precedent decision (IMO).

 

I thought the 767's were being brought on to replace the DC-8's going into retirement?
I sure hope they lead to vacancies!

 

There are 42 over 60 and under-65 FE's remaining. Six of these will turn 65 in 2009. There are 46 over-60 FO's.

 

Roberto,

In the future please use the words NEAR DEAD or FAVRE's for discussing the demographics of our over 60 crewmembers. If you are trying to be accurate with your data (which you have always have been)... this nomenclature adds further credence to your deductions.

Striker.

 

It's FAVRE. Spelling it correctly adds even further credence.