Respectfully, I completely disagree. The rotator was horrible for families. Going to Incheon from anywhere in Korea is painless -- whether it be by car, taxi, bus, subway, or train.

The problem with the rotator was that it wasn't World's fault but the military itself. You had to show like 4 hours before and sit in the secure area of the crappy Osan pax terminal. Shoving 300+ people into this area was completely unacceptable. Additionally, if you had the layover in Kadena, that layover was 4-6 hours!!! I remember spending many hours in the secure area at Kadena and it was just an aweful experience. I think my total transit time from Korea to the Seattle took over 24 hours -- and then I needed to take two more flights to get to my final destination.
Assume disaster would strike ... and occasionally it did; the airplane would break, World crew rest problems (yes its happened), sending 300 people over to airmen snuffy at the base lodging office was "the perfect storm".

With DAL/Korean Air, 15 hours and I was in either NYC, CHI, or ATL. Sometimes, you were bumped into Business or First Class! For those of us who traveled back to mainland on orders during our stay at Osan, you did everything you could to get out of flying the rotator!!!

The rotator was essentially free to "space available" passengers. However, it wasn't free for people on orders. Many military members couldn't understand why their tickets were so expensive but they weren't allowed to book cheaper tickets on other commercial carriers.

I remember when we sent F-16s to RedFlag Alaska (I think it was RedFlag). Anyhow, for the people who needed transportation to AK, the squadron commanders wanted to save money by flying people on the regular KC-10s that would come in to Osan (a free ride). Unfortunately, there was some government rule that you could not do this. Even though those KC-10 seats were available, the military still had to pay the cost of flying those guys to AK ... whether it was by KC-10, World Rotator, or another commercial carrier.

Bottom line, World provided a wonderful service to the military. But the military being the military, found ways to screw it up.

-Fatty

 

Yes, your right fatboy. I do remember those pax terminals and the long layover. I don't know how the military came up with the price they were charging for the flight when people would fly the patriot express on orders, but that was all driven by the military. World, NA, Omni, etc didn't have anything to do with the price. But people who flew on orders didn't actually pay for the tickets in the long run, they were either reimbursed or just presented orders and the gaining unit was billed.

Anyway, what was this thread about?

 

Patriot Express to resume flights
Northwest Airlines to operate passenger service between Seattle, Kadena Air Base
By Bryce S. Dubee, Stars and Stripes
Pacific edition, Wednesday, April 16, 2008

YOKOTA AIR BASE, Japan — Northwest Airlines will begin operating the military’s Patriot Express passenger service in the Pacific starting Thursday, Air Force officials said.

The weekly roundtrip flight, which flies from Seattle to Kadena Air Base on Okinawa with a stop at Yokota, was suspended less than two weeks ago after the previous provider, ATA Airlines, declared bankruptcy and ceased all operations.

U.S. Transportation Command has advised that Northwest would begin operating the Patriot Express this week with the same stops, Lt. Col. Scott Graham, Yokota’s 730th Air Mobility Squadron deputy commander, said Monday.

Although flights will still hit the same bases, he said, the mission “will essentially operate in reverse.” Flights to Seattle from Kadena and Yokota will leave on Thursdays. Flights from Seattle will arrive at those bases on Fridays. In the past, flights from Seattle arrived at the bases on Fridays and departed for the States on Saturdays.

“We were told the same schedule is planned each week through the end of May,” Graham said, adding that U.S. Transportation Command anticipates the same schedule through Sept. 30 of the current fiscal year.

Last October, the passenger capacity of the Patriot Express was increased when a 310-seat DC-10 replaced the smaller L-1011 Northwest will be using a 298-seat Airbus A330-300 for the mission, Graham said.

“This is close to what we had with [ATA],” he said. “But 17 less than the 315 passengers than the DC-10 carried.”

The duty-passenger count — those on permanent change of station or temporary-duty orders — is crucial to making the flight “revenue-neutral” for U.S. Transportation Command.

It’s also a necessary stipulation in preserving a huge space-available travel benefit for the military community. The only charge for space-A fliers headed to the United States is a $27.10 transportation fee, or international “head tax.”

Military Air Mobility Command flights, many of which also offer space-available seats on military-owned aircraft, will not be affected by chartered Patriot Express changes and will continue to operate as normal, officials said.

With more than 1,400 daily departures and a fleet of more than 500 planes, the Minneapolis/St. Paul based Northwest is one of the world’s biggest airlines. According to The Associated Press, Northwest may announce a merger with Delta Airlines this week, which would form the world’s largest airline.

For Yokota AMC flight information, call DSN 225-7111. At Kadena, it’s available at DSN 634-2159.

 

Believe it or not, at one time in history the USAF had enough integral airlift in MAC that we flew all these trips in C-141s. I'll bet there are more than a few of you former Starlifter guys that can remember the 807 out of Norton AFB that went round-robin across the Pacific. That Starlifter was a lady and although not the most comfortable thing for passengers to ride it was always there. It was a sad day when I saw the last of them leave McChord AFB for good. Kind of like watching the death of a close friend.

 

I rode a 141 many times from and to Saudi and trust me it was not a pax favorite. I racall freezing and burning up simultaneously.

 

Ah, but you did get to sit in those extremely comfortable red web seats!

I do agree with you that the C-141 was not the best passenger ride out there. She sure was a sweet thing to fly, though. Tons of power and if you ever got in a bind she would save you if she could.

 

What amazes me about this is that it stops in Tokyo / Yokota. Although this is advantages to NWA who goes to Tokyo often, I can only imagine what a pain it is to fly out of Korea to get to Kadena or Yokota.

If this is indeed true, people in Korea take civilian to the rotator back to civilian. Ugh!

-Fatty

 

Something I've been noticing is that North American has been doing some flying under the World call sign recently from both JFK and the Carribean (TBPB) to Houston. How do the World pilots feel about that? Is it consistent with the CBA in effect?

 

It appears that we do not have the lift so have subbed it to NAA. All of our fleet is being used or in check. If you fly thru JFK often you will see that NAA has some availability. It is consistent with the CBA from what I can tell.

 

Thanks WG. Just checkin'.