The whole MD becoming MUCH more domestic still doesn't pass the sniff test with me. They simply don't have enough 747-400's to make up for losing any more MD's worldwide. I've been running around the PVG, ALA, WAW, CGN, DXB, SIN part of the system and loads were too big for a 767...by far. And while off some, my trans-Pacific legs have been upwards of 165,000 with westbound up due to increased exports. Then as Roberto points out, the remaining -400's are delayed and putting it all together I see a heavy lift deficit. I get/hear their line that the MD reliability is too low (which is their own fault...you need to maintain airplanes, not just coat the cockpit with stickers), but what airplanes are getting replaced stateside (and how many), and why replace them with a larger airframe that takes longer to turn if the world is ending tomorrow? Personally (and this is not just wishful thinking-I'm not known for it ;)), I agree with Salty. While they may try and wring their hands as leverage against us for whatever purpose, perhaps many of you guys have been watching too much Keith Oberman (however it's spelled-he's a buffoon) and the rest of the misery merchants. As I jokingly said in another post if Fed Ex furloughs we might...in five years, but by then the economy will be booming due to the next Ponzi scheme.

This may not be the end of the world, but some of you guys almost seem to want to see it from here :D.

Furlough info from the contract and the union. If we are going to speculate, at least look at some info/facts before posting <g>

Can't displace out of seniority order. Could only hope they furloughed Mil folks out of seniority order. Ever hear of the Dept of Labor/Justice Military Class action lawsuit against AMR? Yep, UPS would regret such a reckless move. AMR lost by the way, settling on the way into Federal Court.

BM stated on Feb 08, 2008 regarding Crew Staffing and Displacements.

"It is important to know that the Company has not disputed the Association’s numbers. The Company, however, makes an assumption that crewmembers will rescue the system by picking up high percentages of open time."



BM stated on Sept 19, 2008:

"have received many expressions of concern-especially from our junior members-regarding rumors that the Company could potentially conduct a pilot furlough should the DHL deal collapse. Indeed, a top UPS official speaking to crewmembers in Cologne several weeks ago would not rule out the possibility when specifically asked. Since that time, the Company has stated that they have no furlough plans. We take them at their word. Nevertheless, the Executive Board believes it is necessary to clearly and publicly state our position.

"First and foremost, we are an Association that defends the rights of all members-including the most junior. Let there be no doubt, should UPS announce any furlough plans affecting IPA crewmembers, the Association will invoke Article 13.K.9., and recommend that all members refrain from flying open time. The Association's recommendation would remain in place until the Company removed any furlough threat.

I want to stress that we are not recommending an open time ban today. We are not predicting a furlough tomorrow. What we are doing is sending a very clear signal to UPS that IPA will not tolerate a furlough threat in the future.

Just as we did when the Company announced a wrongheaded plan in 2003, we will rally around and protect each other-junior and senior. At that time, the Association came together and protected our careers and livelihoods. If necessary, we will do the same again.


Article 8.
G. Furlough and Recall
1. Furlough Notice
When a reduction in crewmembers covered by this Agreement
becomes necessary, crewmembers will be furloughed in
reverse order of seniority. Each crewmember to be furloughed
shall be notified of the furlough and, if possible, of the probable
duration thereof in writing at his last filed address. When it
becomes necessary to furlough crewmembers covered by this
Agreement, at least ninety (90) calendar days notice of such
furlough shall be given to all crewmembers affected, or pay in
lieu thereof, except in cases when the furlough is caused by:
a. Acts of God;
b. Circumstances over which the Company has no control
(which by definition shall not include a reduction of
volume); or
c. Strikes or other work stoppages.
2. Recall
Recall from furlough shall be accomplished in order of seniority
and prior to the employment of new hires. Crewmembers
furloughed prior to the completion of their probationary period
shall be required to complete the remainder of their
probationary period subsequent to recall.

3. Assignment After Recall
Crewmembers returning from furlough shall resume active service in accordance with their seniority.

4. Filing Address/Telephone Notice
At the time of furlough, each furloughed crewmember shall file
his correct address and telephone number in writing with the
Office of the Chief Pilot and shall, within seven (7) calendar
days, advise the Office of the Chief Pilot, in writing, of any
subsequent change of address or telephone number while he
is on furlough.

5. Recall Notice
Furloughed crewmembers shall be notified of their recall in
writing. The notification shall specify a date of return to active
duty. A recalled crewmember may, but shall not be required
to, return to active duty less than thirty (30) calendar days after
the date of receipt of such notice. When justifiable
circumstances exist, additional time to report for duty may be
permitted by the Company.

6. Recall Notice Answer
Each crewmember shall answer his recall notice in writing.
Such answer must be received by the Office of the Chief Pilot
within twenty (20) calendar days from the time the recall notice
was received by the crewmember as evidenced by the return
receipt showing delivery to the crewmember’s last filed
address. The answer shall state the crewmember’s intent to
accept or reject recall.
a. Recalls shall be offered in seniority order and assigned in
reverse seniority order.
b. A crewmember shall have the right to decline recall but
shall indicate the date upon which he is available for recall
provided that he must be available within one (1) year from
the date of receipt of the notice of recall. However, if
during the period of furlough the crewmember entered into
a legally binding pilot employment contract, the
crewmember shall have up to two (2) years from the date
of the recall notice to return to work if a position is
available. The Company shall return the crewmember to
the first position which becomes available to which he is
entitled after the above date provided by the crewmember.
If the crewmember fails to return to work when he is
notified of such opening, he shall cease to have seniority
and his employment with the Company shall be considered
terminated for all purposes.
c. At the time of furlough, crewmembers shall retain their
seniority number for seven (7) years at which time such
furlough shall expire and seniority shall be forfeited.
d. Notifications and answers thereto required under this
Article shall be made either by certified or registered mail,
return receipt requested, or by telegram, reply requested,
within the time limits specified in this Article.

From my understanding, the Governor of Ohio is developing a plan where Ohio will partner with DHL in order to bring costs down to beat the UPS arrangement.

Ohio taxpayers should be furious, but that's what Governor Strickland is doing.

Strickland: DHL-UPS Agreement Is 'Not A Done Deal' - Cincinnati breaking news, weather radar, traffic from 9News | Channel 9 WCPO.com

Note the last sentence...

Good Info, thanks

What's everyones guess on how fat we are. Also, I think the over 60 guys and guys who wanted to retire early may not now with the market like it is. What do you think

Can they yank UPS's Ohio overflight permit to save Wilmington?:D

They might as well.

Imagine if you were a UPS pilot who lived in Ohio, knowing that your Governor was spending your tax money to subsidize a German owned company to compete with UPS so you can get furloughed.

Truly unbelievable! :mad:

You know whats amazing. Untill this post it seemed that only a few of us guys on the bottom truly thought about furlogh. It seems the rest is just sailing through life and might wake up one day and say oh Sh!T. How is it that so many people can't see what might very well happen, especially the ones that will be effected. I think they have been sold "it can never happen at UPS" and truley believe it.

Were did you get that info. I have asked around, and the only thing that has been done was a hiring freeze this last jan.

If you go on airUPSers.com and check out the profiles of new-hires from previous years. The majority of them stated their desire to work here is because of UPS's stability. I guess most will believe this all the way out the door? You almost never hear anyone talking about the F word in the cockpit. Although nothing has happened yet, UPS is still "stable". But when you're the bottom 10%, there's cause to be concerned.

I don't put the blame on UPS at all. If we furlough, I blame worthless politicians pandering for votes and I blame ALPA for the AGE 65 rule change and also for fighting the UPS/DHL deal.

JMHO.