This thread is pretty funny, if you put it into context...I mean really, take a step back and a deep breath. If I were in management I would be LMAO right now at how easy it is to create mass hysteria. Not to say that being furloughed is any laughing matter, it's not.

Management has created a perfect sh!t storm for themselves and now they are trying to make the pilots pay for their poor decisions. By doing everything on the cheap (ie. substandard HKG LOA) the seniority system is all out of alignment. The company is currently in NO position whatsoever to begin furloughs in its current form.

So lets have an excess bid...WOW, that's going to be expensive! How can we cut costs to save money? Spin the numbers, say we are overstaffed, create furlough hysteria and then reduce BLG! Problem solved for now. Ride out the bad economy for 6-9 months, magically the numbers are better, no need to furlough, no need for realignment.

I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed (take your shot here!) but one thing I do know is that we, the pilots, are extremely predictable and management knows how to divide and conquer. Management LOVES to see 100+ hour schedules, pilots flying extra and no open time. We are just making their job that much easier.

To conclude, if the company REALLY was in a jam and overstaffed by their numbers I GUARANTEE you that the most cost effective method to prevent furlough would be to offer the ND's an early retirement package. So why won't they even engage the idea...makes me wonder. Stay tuned...

PurpleTail ... agree with most of what you say but wouldn't this quote be giving the ND's yet another good deal OUTSIDE OF THE CBA?

What is the gouge out there with FedEx buying up as much 727 simulator time that they could for 2009? I have heard that one on the line. And no I dont like adding another rumor to the already active mill.

It's actually included in the CBA.

I'm with you, I'm not senior at all, but it sounds like the Democrats have taken over APC. I've been wanting to say that for few months now. Spread the pain help us poor junior guys out.

over 60 guys do not work for the stated hrly rate. You have to deduct the pension not being paid to reveal their actual rate.

It is also not a secret that the more years you work after 60 significantly affects your life span.

Unless I'm missing something, wouldn't this cover it?:


Section 23.C. Furlough and Recall - Incentive Plan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Company may, at its option, elect to avoid or mitigate a furlough by offering pilots or a specific group of pilots (using age or seniority, unless the Association consents to an alternate selection criteria) voluntary early retirement and/or severance package. If made to a specific group of pilots, any offer shall be made on a uniform and non-discriminatory basis. The Company shall notify, meet and consult with the Association prior to making any offer pursuant to this paragraph.

The NDs have already demonstrated that logic and reason are AWOL for many of them. Some actually worked for less than they would've made in retirement when they went to the panel at 60. These guys hung around and hit the lotto and you expect them to go away? You can't get rid of herpes no matter how much money you throw at it. The target audience for any buy out should be the 55-60 year group who, hopefully, have a life outside flying. Tell them they can go out without a penalty for early retirement. Take your YOS and high 5 average and have a nice life. We have many that are over 25 YOS but several years away from 60. Might be surprising how many would take that option.

That's why it's called a UNION. But, as LJ said, you only have to live with yourself. I, for one, would appreciate a little help to prevent me or my friends from getting furloughed. If you're not down with that, then sorry.

Your getting help as we speak....