60-65 VEBA.

Hub turns through EWR.

Scooby Snacks.

Your concept is still wrong, if they want to change the retirement age what is it worth to them. Maybe we can all group together and give up 2% of our paychecks to form an organization. That organization can hire some accountants to figure out what the benefit costs fred.

I sure hope we get a lot more than age 60 retirement for Scooby Snacks.

PS Freeze the current pension plan; switch to a pure DC plan (not the one they snookered everyone else with) and we won't have to worry about getting emails from the R&I guys about the health of the pension plan.

 

So, again, what would you be willing to give up, for the rest of your career, to keep the age at 60?[/quote]

DW

 

DW[/quote]


Again... we are going to have to spend negotiating capitol to keep something we already have...? what a concept.

 

Numbersguy, please don't twist the facts. The early retirement age has never been defined as " 5 years prior the mandatory retirement and penalty equating to 3%/year." Early retirement has always been defined as vested service, age 55 at the earliest and a .25% reductuction for ever month prior to your 60th birthday. That is how it was prior to our contracts and how it is defined in our present contract.

Now do I believe that the "A"plan will survive, simple answer is no. It may survive this contract round and possibly the next, but to think that FedEx pilots will have a define benefit plan 20 years from now is hard to imagine. Should we as a collective group research and consider other options, I would say yes. But your suggestion of just changing the retirement age as a solution to the problem doesn't make sense to me.

I do not share your view that the courts and/or congress are going to go after one employee group or occupation regarding retiree benefits. That appears to be panic to me. Let's look around us, only 2 pilot groups are left with a true define benefit plan that has not been frozen or terminated. That being said I think everyone involved will let all parties involved duke it out in negotiations and not press the courts unless bankruptcy is involved. I don't see bankruptcy in the near future for FedEx. Let's let the R&I people research this and give us some options to consider prior to the next round of negotiations. Let us not act like panicky stock traders worried about the next rumor and more like the trained professionals that we are.

 

I just can't see the government saying "ALPA your contract is void and you can't retire at 60 or you will have to pay FedEx a penalty"! Look, they did the OBRA thing, the contract bridged it! The contract is between FedEx and ALPA, yes, it can't violate law, but I cannot see an "external influence" change this in our contract, outside of bankruptcy or negotiations.

 

Any changes! Changing the retirement age from 60 is a deal breaker for me!

 

It may not even be a factor but since the regulated age has changed, I would bet the company would come to the table with that as an opener.

Let me put it to you this way, would you accept an age 65 retirement change for an immediate 40% pay raise at signing? How many years do you have to go until you get that "promised" retirement benefit? Money in your hand today is more valuable than the promise of money tomorrow; especially with THIS company! A change to Age 65 without a HUGE monetary increase is a deal breaker for me also.

 

Unfortunately, "what we already have" becomes amendable in 2010. At that point, we begin taking effective pay cuts as inflation eats away at our pay and the company drags its feet at negotiations. As I said before, the company can drag its feet forever until we begin the process of working towards a job action. And yes, we will be spending negotiating capital on keeping any regulated rule from changing contractually. That's just the way it works. I don't like it but I'm a realist. I want money now; as much as I can get and as soon as I can get it. Then, hopefully, around age 55 or 58, I can set the parking brake halfway through the before start checklist and walk off the airplane....but that's just me.

 

familyatm, not trying to twist the facts here. you are right, that is how the retirement age is defined. the math is the same. I was using the ultimate early retirement age and maximum penalty for brevity's sake. As the language points out, it is far too easy to change it to ensure that those planning on going at 55, or those planning on going at 60 at 100% of the pension value, will no longer be able to do so. Two quick strokes of the pen and it's over.

You are right again. I don't believe a defined benefit plan will be around in 20 years either. They are going away faster than DC10s in the corporate US. FWS is already on record saying he wants to be on that train.

I'm not trying to induce panic here either. Negotiations take time, sometimes too much time. And this isn't the time for the grandfathers in the crewforce to be working out some sort of grandfather clause into the new deal. It's also not time for my favorite grey-whiskered, beer buying left seaters to be striving to eek out a few more percentage points for the mulitplier. It's time for the entire crewforce to learn about how quickly one of the three pillars of their planned retirement can be chopped by fifteen percent. It's time for everyone to consider what will happen to their plan if this thing changes. It's time to negotiate this thing while it's still possible to obtain a win/win. Fedex wants it now, and with the right terms, I believe the crew force can win now. In two years, we won't have that option.

It sounds like some pilots will be diving on their sword when this happens, which may be good for the collective iq or our bunch...might open up a few more spots for those smart enough to realize how many dollars we're talking about here. My desire is to influence this while we still have a chance.
The best time to influence something like this is before it is set in stone (ala the ALPA support for the switch to age 65). At the very least, let's get this issue to a vote....once everyone has had a chance to see how the varying options could impact their future. If the majority want the status quo, I'll shut up. If I'm right, and we can make this thing work to our advantage, you can buy me beers with the 15% you saved, while I'm still flying boxes and you are strolling around on your walker.

 

Numbersguy, Hey I think we agree on a number of points and the R&I guys should show us some options prior to 2010 openers. This is a big issue with lots of dollars, people and emotions involved. I think we both believe transition off a define benefit plan will come. I just hope we can make it reasonable and not like the whacking that the rest of the FedEx employees took a few years back.

Cheers,

PS. Would be happy to have a beer with you.